How would you feel about this trade (with us also getting OKC's pick and the DET 1st from Charlotte --- or their 1st depending on which they'd rather move)?
I think it makes sense on all fronts
- Charlotte if they think it'll help them contend. Also get a backup defensive big to replace Biyombo
- OKC gets a legitimate bench scorer (Gordon is 16-3-3 in his career and a 40% 3PT shooter) to replace Martin. Haywood replaces Perkins as their 0 skill big guy that can guard other centers because of size.
- We absorb Perkins' deal which isn't really an issue because it's only 2 years and we'd be looking at rebuilding anyway. Get a potential PG of the future in Walker, Biyombo who still has a lot of defensive potential and Perry Jones who is another guy who supposedly had/has high upside who could just be let go if he sucks (team option). Gomes is tossed in to make salaries work and could just be waived to clear roster space. We also get a late lottery pick and a late 1st round pick in the deal.
We could roll with
If we're serious about getting a top 5 pick of our own.
I thought the idea was to get as high a pick as possible? Playing that lineup would result in very few wins but also allow us to evaluate the talent level of Kemba, PJIII and Bismack. Admittedly, Casey probably wouldn't stand for this and would probably still start Amir/Hansbrough and Novak.
Call me crazy but with Charlotte getting the two of the three best players - if not THE best two players - in the deal, I'm not sure why one would need to include OKC.
Toronto could also have an advantage over Charlotte because one of the teams likely to want Gay would be Detroit and Charlotte owns their pick. If Detroit gets Gay, that is a disadvantage to Charlotte.
I wasn't suggesting lowering the amount of value we were getting back, I basically just adjusted your trade and sent BG to OKC for another pick and a contract...
Maybe we could squeeze a 2nd 1st out of Charlotte (Portland's maybe?), but I don't see what's wrong with the deal I posted. It's exactly the same as the one you suggested with us getting another pick from OKC...
Also in taking back Perkins you are taking up $9.5M in cap space for the next (*edit* just one) summer. I would not expect the Raptors to be players in free agency but the cap space would be great for dealing with teams worried about the luxury tax (Cleveland with Memphis) or looking to dump players to make their own runs (Portland with Houston).
Last edited by mcHAPPY; Thu Aug 8th, 2013 at 04:01 PM.
On a side note, I read that Jabari Parker is already talking about staying in college for a 2nd year. By the time the draft rolls around, it could look quite different that the mocks people are toying around with now.
And I agree with your second point, it is part of the problem with tanking. It's unpredictable, unreliable and heavily based on chance.
Important things to remember about each team:
Toronto: they are blowing it up in this scenario. Don't really want to talk about if they are or not - that has been beat to death. Here we are assuming they are blowing it up.
Charlotte: laughingstock of league for few years. Desperate to get out of the cellar. I read somewhere recently a writer talking about Charlotte being a great place and as soon as they start winning they will be an attractive place for NBA players. Who knows. Bottom line is I think the treadmill and a couple of playoff games revenue looks appealing to MJ, Cho, and Co. after striking out on the lottery the last few seasons (by that I mean decent but not great players).
Houston: I don't buy the "want to keep Lin and Asik" comments. Those two guys only count as $16.7M cap hit next year but their actual salary combined will be about $30-32M. Also, Lin played just 4 games and 32, 20, 18, and 13 games while missing 2 games (can't remember how bad the chest bruise was) and he was dog poop. Asik has made it clear he is not happy as a reserve. After getting off the bench from Chicago to now going back, he is not happy. More to come from Houston in the "Why" section.
*Richardson released to create roster space for +1 player coming back to TO
**Augustine or Buycks sent to Charlotte (December 15th)
Toronto: Lin, Sessions, Biyombo, Haywood, Jones/Motiejunas, Adrien, Houston 2015/2017 pick, from Charlotte Pistons top8 protected and Portland top 12 protected.
Houston: Gordon, Novak, Gray, Kemba
Charlotte: Gay, Asik, Lowry, $3M from Toronto, $3M from Houston
Houston: with a core already set of Harden/Howard/Parsons they now add a future PG in Kemba. Novak was made to play with Howard. Gordon strengthens weak bench. Gray is replacement back up C.
Key issue here is Parsons and Kemba stay on rookie deal for one more year. This deal gives them about (assumption cap of $60M) $12-13M in cap space. They can hit free agency one last time before being limited to exceptions.
As mentioned above Houston also avoids paying $30+M to Asik and Lin despite just having a $16.7M cap hit.
I think that is an eastern conference playoff team - although they need more shooting. Never going to go deep but it is a step up from where they are now AND they kept #2 pick in 2012 and #4 in 2013.
Toronto: obviously they are tanking here. They just got 4 first round draft picks to give them possibly 3 in 2014, 2 in 2015, 2 in 2016, and 2 in 2017.
Lin gives them PG for next year.
Sessions is cap filler and expiring.
Biyombo has potential as long term back up C.
Haywood is cost of doing business. Likely waived/bought out. Option for 2015/16 obviously not picked up.
Jones/Motiejunas depends on which Houston would like. Personally I see potential in both - preference to Jones.
Adrien is cap filler.
TL has talked about the deep pockets of MLSE/Bell/Rogers. Here is chance to put money where mouth is. Lin only counts as $8.375M on books but will be paid over $15M. Great way to get a couple of draft picks in process.
Raptors would have about $17M in cap space in summer of 2014.
For 2015-16 they would have JV, Ross, DD, Jones-Motiejunas, 2014 pick, 2014 pick, 2015 pick, 2015 pick and a shit load of cap space (about $30M in committed salaries). Yes, free agency is now an option in the summer of 2015 right before JV's extension.
This is/was a waste of time on my part but that would be a good sign of tanking.... lol
Matt52's trade doesn't work because we can't trade Steve Novak in conjunction with other players presently.
TORONTO GETS: Jeremy Lin, Bismack Biyombo, Ramon Sessions, Jeff Adrien, Houston's 2015/17, the Detroit/Portland protected picks from Charlotte
HOUSTON GETS: Kemba Walker, Terrence Ross, Ben Gordon, Brendan Haywood, draft rights to Tomislav Zubcic
CHARLOTTE GETS: Rudy Gay, Kyle Lowry, Omer Asik, Terrence Jones, money from Houston and/or Toronto
That's a little more balanced in favour of Houston; they'd rather get young Terrence Ross than Steve Novak, because Houston has healthy perimeter shooting already and Ross has a lot more potential upside for them than Novak does.
The Novak restriction will be gone in a month, btw. But the Ross idea makes sense too.
I like both of these trades. They look fair and reasonable.
Btw, Houston is in position to be a major free agency force in 2015, which should be a very impressive free agency. Parsons' cap hit is miniscule, so they could target Love/Aldridge/Rondo/Millsap etc that summer.
So while this deal opens up their cap space for 2014, I don't know if they wouldn't just prefer to wait till 2015. Morey's plan might be to retain their flexibility for 2015 while at the same time collect assets / picks and try to acquire the third star via trade.
That said, I do agree that keeping Asik makes no sense, if a good deal is available.
Last edited by BobLoblaw; Sat Aug 10th, 2013 at 02:14 AM.
I put that in post so made the assumption Novak being unable to be traded until September 10th would be a non issue.
Your trade leaves Charlotte with no backup PG besides Pargo and Charlotte is not sending out enough money to make trade work under CBA.
Also Houston in in win now mode. Not sure they want a project in Ross especially in Harden's position. Novak is Mr. Spacing for Harden and Howard. Off the bench right now they have Garcia, Williams, and Casspi none of which are a certainty.
Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sat Aug 10th, 2013 at 05:33 AM.
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