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Thread: ESPN 5-on-5: Rudy Gay most Overrated Small Forward.

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    in before OPTION YEAR

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I don't think there's any questioning Rudy's Talent level. I think everyone would agree that Rudy could be elite, at least in a Carmelo kind of way. Its just for whatever reason (bad eyes..?) he hasn't been able to quite get there. Here's hoping this is the year, I guess. It kinda needs to be...
    Vision doesn't equal shot selection

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  4. #23
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    Now that he's a Raptor he's overrated

    Overpaid for sure-but hopefully were in for a massive year for RG.

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    Overpaid, yes, massively. But not overrated. These fools have been saying that Memphis is much better w/o him, and look what happened in the playoffs vs the spurs.

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    I don't think these people know the difference between overpaid and overrated. Gay is overpaid but not overrated. Overrated means anything that is given way too much hype. Every NBA fan is aware of his efficiency criticisms, his lack of a consistent three point shot and his salary. The fact that Pistons really thought we would trade Gay for Stuckey, Villanueva and no picks means that there isn't that much hype over him, so they're not stupid for saying he's overrated. If Gay was overrated, we would be getting a shit ton of trade offers for him. Not to mention that no one, outside of Toronto Raptors fans, ever write an article about him, so he's not getting more hype than he deserves. He's not overrated. He's overpaid! Something completely different. He might have been overrated when he got paid and signed his enormous contact, but as of right now, he's perfectly rated as his hype has gone down over the years. Only Raptors fan overrate him at times, but to the NBA he's not overrated in general!

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    Quote Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post
    I don't think these people know the difference between overpaid and overrated. Gay is overpaid but not overrated. Overrated means anything that is given way too much hype. Every NBA fan is aware of his efficiency criticisms, his lack of a consistent three point shot and his salary. The fact that Pistons really thought we would trade Gay for Stuckey, Villanueva and no picks means that there isn't that much hype over him, so they're not stupid for saying he's overrated. If Gay was overrated, we would be getting a shit ton of trade offers for him. Not to mention that no one, outside of Toronto Raptors fans, ever write an article about him, so he's not getting more hype than he deserves. He's not overrated. He's overpaid! Something completely different. He might have been overrated when he got paid and signed his enormous contact, but as of right now, he's perfectly rated as his hype has gone down over the years. Only Raptors fan overrate him at times, but to the NBA he's not overrated in general!
    Pretty much this. There are quite a few great players like Rudy Gay who are overpaid but certainly not overrated.

    DeMar DeRozan
    Joe Johnson
    Amar'e Stoudemire (when healthy... which is never lol)
    Carlos Boozer
    Nene
    Al Jefferson
    Javale McGee
    Kobe Bryant (although Lakers fans do overrate him)
    Jeremy Lin
    Eric Gordon

    That's just to name a few.

  9. #27
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    Since Josh Smith is now a small forward, he's the most overrated.

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    Quote 2KJ wrote: View Post
    Overpaid, yes, massively. But not overrated. These fools have been saying that Memphis is much better w/o him, and look what happened in the playoffs vs the spurs.
    This is one thing I don't understand. Memphis might be better off FINANCIALLY without Gay, but they aren't better off as a team and it showed in the playoffs.

    I mean they didn't really beat anyone. They beat LAC after losing the first 2 games largely because Blake Griffin got hurt, at which point it was basically CP3 vs. the Grizzlies defense. OKC was also missing their second best player and one of the top 10 players in the league in Westbrook.

    When they finally played a strong, healthy team in the Spurs they got throttled. Primarily because they had nobody who could actually create a shot for themselves (Z-Bo did this in 2011 because his jumpers were falling like he was Kevin Durant, but it didn't work out this year). Marc Gasol only shot 39% from the field in the WCF, that is atrocious regardless of position but especially for a bigman. Z-Bo shot 30% and Mike Conley was at 38%. Why? Stat-heads love to emphasize shooting 3s and scoring inside over the mid-range game, but the problem with that is that teams don't give you a ton of good looks from those areas during the playoffs. If your team can't take advantage of the in-between game and score from mid-range, isos or the high post you are going to get KILLED against a good defense in the playoffs. Period end of story, not up for debate.

    Normally Gay would have been taking and making those shots at a higher clip than the Grizzlies' "Big 3" which definitely would've helped them. Instead those shots were re-distributed to Gasol-Conley-ZBo which resulted in all three of them becoming incredibly inefficient. Basketball isn't all stats. You can't just replace a high usage mediocre efficiency guy with a low usage high efficiency guy and expect your team to become more efficient. Because those shots are going to have to be redistributed somewhere, and they're likely going to go to guys that can't make them at all.

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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    Since Josh Smith is now a small forward, he's the most overrated.
    How is Josh Smith overrated? If anything he's one of the more underrated players in the NBA.

    He's never made the all-star team and most people just label him as an inefficient chucker.

    This is a guy that has averaged 15-8-3 with a 52% TS percentage and a PER of 18 for his career. He is also one of the best two-way players in basketball along with LBJ, Paul George, Dwight etc and the only person more versatile than him as a defender is LeBron.

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    Quote rocwell wrote: View Post
    Overrated wtf?

    He's overpaid, that's for sure, but not overrated.
    On point.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Not sure why these guys would classify him as "overrated'. he is seldom talked about even when he was in memphis, and moreso after joining the raptors. nobody is really hyping him up as a 'franchise player' and he's neither said nor confirmed that he thinks he is a franchise player.

    overpaid? in the current CBA yes. but if it was still the old CBA, he'd probably be in the same level as brook lopez, eric gordon, bosh. good enough, but not elite level.

    i'll reserve my judgement after this season.

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  17. #32
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    This is one thing I don't understand. Memphis might be better off FINANCIALLY without Gay, but they aren't better off as a team and it showed in the playoffs.

    I mean they didn't really beat anyone. They beat LAC after losing the first 2 games largely because Blake Griffin got hurt, at which point it was basically CP3 vs. the Grizzlies defense. OKC was also missing their second best player and one of the top 10 players in the league in Westbrook.

    When they finally played a strong, healthy team in the Spurs they got throttled. Primarily because they had nobody who could actually create a shot for themselves (Z-Bo did this in 2011 because his jumpers were falling like he was Kevin Durant, but it didn't work out this year). Marc Gasol only shot 39% from the field in the WCF, that is atrocious regardless of position but especially for a bigman. Z-Bo shot 30% and Mike Conley was at 38%. Why? Stat-heads love to emphasize shooting 3s and scoring inside over the mid-range game, but the problem with that is that teams don't give you a ton of good looks from those areas during the playoffs. If your team can't take advantage of the in-between game and score from mid-range, isos or the high post you are going to get KILLED against a good defense in the playoffs. Period end of story, not up for debate.
    I have to disagree. The problem for Memphis wasn't a lack of Rudy Gay, who provided inefficient mid-range shooting this year and lousy threes. Memphis' problem was a lack of perimeter threats to create the spacing to make Z-Bo and Gasol the deadly close-range threats they need to be in order for the Grizzlies to operate at peak efficiency, and Rudy wouldn't have provided that because he simply wasn't a perimeter threat in 2012-13 - and frankly his mid-range game dropped last year as well. That lack of edge shooting is why Memphis went after shooters (but only ended up getting Nick Calathes and Mike Miller).

    Long story short: Rudy was not very good last year, would almost certainly not have made a difference in the playoffs, and Memphis decided that they didn't want to risk him staying at that level, and BC decided he was willing to roll the dice.

    Rudy has a lot to prove this season. Most of your posts discussing Rudy work under the assumption that the 2012-13 seas was a post-injury aberration and he'll return to his previous form, but the possibility that he won't is one that has to be considered. He's the biggest gamble on the team in a lot of ways.

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    Quote rocwell wrote: View Post
    Overrated wtf?

    He's overpaid, that's for sure, but not overrated.
    There's one very small, but important, group of people who seem to rate Gay very highly: ex-NBA players. Specifically, Jalen Rose, Kenny Smith and Chuckwagon. They've each talked about how he's a very important player, and how Memphis made a mistake by trading him. They ignore his bad percentages and say that you need to have a player like Gay because he makes other SFs work so much harder on the defensive end.

  19. #34
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    To be honest, I don't think Rudy Gay is overrated because when it comes to hard teams, he'll play really good, he never tries his best against not so good teams.

    He'll ALWAYS go off against those good teams, but won't against not so good teams, that's why his stats are low, and why everyone thinks he isn't as good as others think he is.

    My opinion ..

  20. #35
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    No way Gay is overrated. He's not that far below Paul George in ability and talent. The same Paul George whom seems to be the 5 on 5's crew favourite for sf with most potential. The same Paul George whom Gay went toe to toe with in one of the best Raptors games last season and drained the game winner over. Take the salaries out of the equation and for the amount of hype he gets I would say Melo is the most overrated sf.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar lilmamba_'s Avatar
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    well that's embarrassing and disappointing for the already low esteemed raptor fans
    What they got to say now? Nothing they can say now. Mobbin' on the low. Winnin' on the low
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    No way Gay is overrated. He's not that far below Paul George in ability and talent. The same Paul George whom seems to be the 5 on 5's crew favourite for sf with most potential. The same Paul George whom Gay went toe to toe with in one of the best Raptors games last season and drained the game winner over. Take the salaries out of the equation and for the amount of hype he gets I would say Melo is the most overrated sf.
    1. Paul George is four years younger than Rudy; where Rudy is just entering NBA peak years, George still has significant room for growth. And as you correctly note, George is already better than Rudy is.

    2. Melo has been playing power forward for a year and a half.

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    I think we've reached a consensus here. Almost all of the 5 opinions either directly or indirectly mentioned his salary as proving he was not worth what people think of him. A salary granted to him by a small market team that had to overpay to keep a franchise original. That's an easy target. If the panel used any thought, they would have realized the question means, who does everybody think is really good but actually isn't all that good? That would have been an interesting discussion. But that would have taken thought.

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  26. #39
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    I dont know what it is but when we played the heat in the 3rd or 4th game after Rudy was here he played unbelieveable defense on Lebron. I think it was the best i saw on him all season 1v1 maybe Kawai Lenord. I think its his motor because he has all the talent can get to the rim at will can get to the line at will has a good jumpshot but needs to improve only flaw is his 3pt shot which really isnt THAT bad. Its much better than Demars at this point. I think most of this is just because of his contract. But my question to all of you is if Rudy isnt the most overrated SF... who is?

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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    Since Josh Smith is now a small forward, he's the most overrated.
    Agreed!

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