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Thread: ESPN 5-on-5: Rudy Gay most Overrated Small Forward.

  1. #121
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Don't forget Carmelo.
    What about Carmelo?

    George shot 39-27-60 in the Knicks series.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    What about Carmelo?

    George shot 39-27-60 in the Knicks series.
    Yes he did.

    But his team won and he contributed in other ways.

    Efficiency is only the be all and end all when you don't do anything other than score.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Efficiency by itself certainly doesn't make you an all-star/superstar player, but inefficiency can definitely disqualify you. I think most of his hype comes from his age and his late growth spurt, to be honest. He's obviously a good player, but I think people are expecting a lot of improvement in the next one to two years because he's still so young. Putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Carmelo only scores thats it but honestly as a pure scorer Melo is probably the best next to Durant... However Id much rather have my Franchise guy be KD. Paul George does a lot averaged what 5 ast a game and 6 boards with 17 ppg.. pretty good everywhere bad defender though. and his Fg% is awful at 39% yikes.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TRX wrote: View Post
    Efficiency by itself certainly doesn't make you an all-star/superstar player, but inefficiency can definitely disqualify you. I think most of his hype comes from his age and his late growth spurt, to be honest. He's obviously a good player, but I think people are expecting a lot of improvement in the next one to two years because he's still so young. Putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.
    Superstar - yes.

    All-Star - probably not.

    I agree with your overall sentiments though.

    I wonder what reactions and opinions would be if George was a Raptor?
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    The way you guys talk about some players I'd be surprised if you even watch the games instead of only looking at stats.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    The way you guys talk about some players I'd be surprised if you even watch the games instead of only looking at stats.
    DeMar DeRozan anyone?

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    Raptors Republic Starter Sam17's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Carmelo only scores thats it but honestly as a pure scorer Melo is probably the best next to Durant... However Id much rather have my Franchise guy be KD. Paul George does a lot averaged what 5 ast a game and 6 boards with 17 ppg.. pretty good everywhere bad defender though. and his Fg% is awful at 39% yikes.
    He was on the NBA All-Defensive 2nd Team.

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    Quote Sam17 wrote: View Post
    He was on the NBA All-Defensive 2nd Team.
    Was he? well I missed that I just remeber him getting torched in the playoffs all night every night, but I guess playing against LBJ and Melo will do that to you when you are a lean 2 guard playing the 3 spot.

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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    I'd really like to know how George is better than Deng in his 3rd season (18.8ppg, 7.1rpg on 51.7% shooting) or Rudy Gay in his 3rd season (18.9ppg, 5.5rpg on 45.3% shooting) tbh.
    Defense.

    Btw, when analyzing George, you have to keep in mind that he didn't break out at the start of the year, even if that's more convenient to assume when collecting stats. He absolutely sucked for the first month or so, after being thrown into that bigger role. Once he adjusted, he was a different player.

    Now superstar, non superstar, i don't know, he still needs to improve. I wouldn't be surprised, considering how much he's added to his game every year.

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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Carmelo only scores thats it but honestly as a pure scorer Melo is probably the best next to Durant... However Id much rather have my Franchise guy be KD. Paul George does a lot averaged what 5 ast a game and 6 boards with 17 ppg.. pretty good everywhere bad defender though. and his Fg% is awful at 39% yikes.
    Are you sure you are talking about Paul George btw? Like, everything in bold is wrong, unless you mean somebody else.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Superstar - yes.

    All-Star - probably not.

    I agree with your overall sentiments though.

    I wonder what reactions and opinions would be if George was a Raptor?
    Around the league? Probably lower since the team wouldn't be in the playoffs.

    In Toronto, we'd probably be overrating him including myself.

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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    Defense.

    Btw, when analyzing George, you have to keep in mind that he didn't break out at the start of the year, even if that's more convenient to assume when collecting stats. He absolutely sucked for the first month or so, after being thrown into that bigger role. Once he adjusted, he was a different player.

    Now superstar, non superstar, i don't know, he still needs to improve. I wouldn't be surprised, considering how much he's added to his game every year.
    Luol Deng has always been considered an elite defender. I mean he was 5th in the league in DWS that year, and his length and versatility allow him to guard 3 sometimes 4 positions.

    George had a mediocre 1st month yeah, but he also played poorly after the ASB, and terribly towards the end of the season. His play was relatively consistent throughout the year though. I wouldn't say he was a different player, he was about the same guy for 60+ games.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    I still think that overall Rudy Gay is a better player.

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I still think that overall Rudy Gay is a better player.
    Than George? I don't think so man.

    George does almost everything better. I'd say Gay is a more versatile scorer and has been more efficient up until last season, but there's not much else he has on PG.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Than George? I don't think so man.

    George does almost everything better. I'd say Gay is a more versatile scorer and has been more efficient up until last season, but there's not much else he has on PG.
    Rebounding would be a toss up. He pass ball better but, at the rate he gets turnovers. I don't know of I would give him the edge there. He does show more commitment on D.

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Rebounding would be a toss up. He pass ball better but, at the rate he gets turnovers. I don't know of I would give him the edge there. He does show more commitment on D.
    Rebounding is close but its still in George's favour (11.3% vs 10.2%).

    George's assist %19.6 vs TO% 15.2 > Gay's Assist% 13.6 vs 12.5 TO% (1.3 vs 1.1)

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Rebounding would be a toss up. He pass ball better but, at the rate he gets turnovers. I don't know of I would give him the edge there. He does show more commitment on D.
    Dude i like Rudy, but let's just be real here.

    George averaged 7.6rpg last year, Rudy averaged 6.1rpg. Both players get about the same minutes. That's not a wash. Rudy is slightly above average for a starting SF, George is close to elite for a SF as only Aminu, KD and LBJ were better than him at SF rebounding last year.

    You mentioned turnovers but Rudy Gay turns it over almost as much as George (2.6 to 2.9) but averages less assists (2.7 to 4.1). So his assist-turnover ratio (1.04) is lower than George's (1.41)

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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Luol Deng has always been considered an elite defender. I mean he was 5th in the league in DWS that year, and his length and versatility allow him to guard 3 sometimes 4 positions.

    George had a mediocre 1st month yeah, but he also played poorly after the ASB, and terribly towards the end of the season. His play was relatively consistent throughout the year though. I wouldn't say he was a different player, he was about the same guy for 60+ games.
    60 games, yes. Beginning of the season, no.

    Deng was not considered an elite defender early in his career. And George is arguably a better defender than current Deng.

    Btw, defensive win shares are a heavily team dependent stat. Carlos Boozer was top 5 in defensive win shares last year.

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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    60 games, yes. Beginning of the season, no.

    Deng was not considered an elite defender early in his career. And George is arguably a better defender than current Deng.

    Btw, defensive win shares are a heavily team dependent stat. Carlos Boozer was top 5 in defensive win shares last year.
    defensive win share needs to be adjusted for minutes.

    If you had 2 perfectly identical players and player A played 1000 minutes and player B played 2000 minutes, player B would have 2x the defensive winshare of player A.

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