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Thread: ESPN 5-on-5: Rudy Gay most Overrated Small Forward.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    1st bold - too early to tell, I think

    No it isn't. Even if Ross becomes a good 3+D player... those guys can easily be had in free agency or via trade. It's pretty damn near impossible to get a center with Drummond's physical tools and skill. In fact at present there is only 1 other one in the NBA.

    2nd bold - not really, since the team would really only ever be able to have one of them on the court at a time, which is an issue that gets magnified when you consider the league is going small and becoming more wing-dominant

    This is absolutely untrue. Please explain to me how the Lakers won the title with Pau and Bynum up front? Both of these guys were centers before coming together and are less mobile than both JV and Drummond, just absolutely 100% incorrect.

    During the draft, when the Raps pick came up and Drummond was still available, I was hoping for them to trade down a couple spots to pickup an additional asset (even just adding an additional 2nd round pick or improving their own). I figured they'd still be able to get either Ross or Lamb in such a scenario. I believe BC has since said he did pursue such a move, but would have moved down to after Houston's earlier pick and feared none of the wings he liked would have still been available.

    I agree that we at least should've done this but we didn't. I was still really confused as to why we didn't just trade down with Houston (8 for Lowry and 14), let them get Drummond, take Ross at 14 and still keep our 2013 pick. Oh wait I know why, it's because Nash was the first option at PG and we only wanted Lowry AFTER striking out on him.
    .

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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Xixak, I realize that your thing is to post your answers within the quoted post. But, the way you just put a period outside comes off rather emphatically and somewhat degrading as well. Also, you bolding your response instead of the parts in which your response is to, comes off the same way.

    Just trying to clarify, if that is your intention or not?
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    Xixak, I realize that your thing is to post your answers within the quoted post. But, the way you just put a period outside comes off rather emphatically and somewhat degrading as well. Also, you bolding your response instead of the parts in which your response is to, comes off the same way.

    Just trying to clarify, if that is your intention or not?
    I put bolds cause it's easier for me to reply that way than to quote individual paragraphs. It also allows me to distinguish my text from the OP.

    And the period is there because I have to have at least one character outside the quotations or it won't let me post... Not sure how I was trying to degrade anybody with that.

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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    I put bolds cause it's easier for me to reply that way than to quote individual paragraphs. It also allows me to distinguish my text from the OP.

    And the period is there because I have to have at least one character outside the quotations or it won't let me post... Not sure how I was trying to degrade anybody with that.
    Your past history of degrading fellow posters somewhat emphatically may have something to do with it.

    But, just was looking for clarification. Thank you for the detailed response. No further questions.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    Xixak, I realize that your thing is to post your answers within the quoted post. But, the way you just put a period outside comes off rather emphatically and somewhat degrading as well. Also, you bolding your response instead of the parts in which your response is to, comes off the same way.

    Just trying to clarify, if that is your intention or not?
    You have to put something. Can't just put in a quote. He puts a period.

    In regards to the bolds, I don't see it like that at all.
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    You have to put something. Can't just put in a quote. He puts a period.

    In regards to the bolds, I don't see it like that at all.
    Yeah, you're right. Nitpicking, I guess.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    You have to put something. Can't just put in a quote. He puts a period.

    In regards to the bolds, I don't see it like that at all.
    The one downside to not making the effort to properly respond, is that you prevent other posters from responding to your post, which tends to brings an unfortunate, abrupt end to the conversation.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    The one downside to not making the effort to properly respond, is that you prevent other posters from responding to your post, which tends to brings an unfortunate, abrupt end to the conversation.
    Good point. Didn't think of it like that. I can't imagine that's the intention though.

    Xixak, stop responding like that. :P haha
    Do like you do with the bolds kinda, just in their own Quotes.
    Last edited by Joey; Thu Aug 15th, 2013 at 05:02 PM.
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Good point. Didn't think of it like that. I can't imagine that's the intention though.

    Xixak, stop responding like that. :P haha
    Do like you do with the bolds kinda, just in their own Quotes.
    haha I didn't think there was any intent behind an imbedded reply. The problem is that when you 'reply with quote', only the period is quoted. I think it's just good form for posters to properly reply, to allow the conversation to continue (even if some might prefer it to stop in some cases LOL).

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Good point. Didn't think of it like that. I can't imagine that's the intention though.

    Xixak, stop responding like that. :P haha
    Do like you do with the bolds kinda, just in their own Quotes.
    Sure thing. It's just easier for me and I'm used to doing it on other forums. Wasn't trying to make a statement or piss anyone off.

    I'll quote each paragraph separately since that's how most of you do it here.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    No it isn't. Even if Ross becomes a good 3+D player... those guys can easily be had in free agency or via trade. It's pretty damn near impossible to get a center with Drummond's physical tools and skill. In fact at present there is only 1 other one in the NBA.
    I don't believe in Drummond at all.. and you are right that there is only one other center like him.. but he needs to improve a lot and he had motivation issues coming out of college so will he? Alabi had a lot of potential but he's out of the league. 3+D players are not as common as you think they are. Guy can shoot or play D but not both generally... and when they can they are huge commodities since they can be put in any situation (as a starter/on the bench/or in crunch time). Plus they are gold in the playoffs.

    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    This is absolutely untrue. Please explain to me how the Lakers won the title with Pau and Bynum up front? Both of these guys were centers before coming together and are less mobile than both JV and Drummond, just absolutely 100% incorrect.
    Gasol changed his game but that was more a testament to Phil and his system. Gasol last year played poorly with Howard and was coming off the bench for D'Antoni. If you had the right system it could work, but then JV would be playing forward instead of center.. and I would rather have JV as center.

    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    I agree that we at least should've done this but we didn't. I was still really confused as to why we didn't just trade down with Houston (8 for Lowry and 14), let them get Drummond, take Ross at 14 and still keep our 2013 pick. Oh wait I know why, it's because Nash was the first option at PG and we only wanted Lowry AFTER striking out on him.
    There is no proof that Ross (or Lamb if they wanted a SG) could have been had at 14. I'm sure BC was on the phone before making that pick (although it was BC and he doesn't really work a draft in terms of moving up/down). I'm not sure I agree that Ross was picked because of Nash either. I think Ross was picked because they liked him both as a person and as a player. BC is a 'character' guy.. and Ross fits that mold.

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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I don't believe in Drummond at all.. and you are right that there is only one other center like him.. but he needs to improve a lot and he had motivation issues coming out of college so will he? Alabi had a lot of potential but he's out of the league. 3+D players are not as common as you think they are. Guy can shoot or play D but not both generally... and when they can they are huge commodities since they can be put in any situation (as a starter/on the bench/or in crunch time). Plus they are gold in the playoffs.



    Gasol changed his game but that was more a testament to Phil and his system. Gasol last year played poorly with Howard and was coming off the bench for D'Antoni. If you had the right system it could work, but then JV would be playing forward instead of center.. and I would rather have JV as center.



    There is no proof that Ross (or Lamb if they wanted a SG) could have been had at 14. I'm sure BC was on the phone before making that pick (although it was BC and he doesn't really work a draft in terms of moving up/down). I'm not sure I agree that Ross was picked because of Nash either. I think Ross was picked because they liked him both as a person and as a player. BC is a 'character' guy.. and Ross fits that mold.
    Ok it was a great pick.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Ok it was a great pick.
    I'm reading sarcasm.. which is fine. I don't think its a great pick yet, but I don't consider it a bad pick. But to say that not getting Drummond was a fail (and I'm not pointing to you specifically but to others who mentioned it in previous posts), I think is a bit harsh since I agree with CRF in that I think it's too early to tell.

    I'm sure we both agree though that it would be awesome if Ross turns into a great pick (as long as he was still a Raptor when it happened).

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    haha I didn't think there was any intent behind an imbedded reply. The problem is that when you 'reply with quote', only the period is quoted. I think it's just good form for posters to properly reply, to allow the conversation to continue (even if some might prefer it to stop in some cases LOL).
    I'm glad someone else finally mentioned it. I had asked on 2 or 3 prior occasions with the exact reasons.
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    lol, high maybe. Joking aside, I see a bit of a difference between those two scenarios. You don't need two starting level Cs, but you need at least 3 quality wings. Now, I'm not saying you can't use two quality Cs and use one as a trade piece, but purely looking at filling needs, there's a difference there.

    That being said, I'm still not sold on Drummond being the future superstar that so many are anointing him as after a rookie season coming off the bench. He's a strong, athletic beast, but has virtually no basketball skills beyond jumping, and his poor work-ethic rep may yet arise. There's been a lot of guys come into the league with his "potential", yet never reach it. Personally, I think both Drummond and Ross fit into that category of young guys that you need at least 3 years before you can compare the wisdom of their draft position.
    I agree, I think Drummond has a long way to go before he can full fill his potential. He's not nearly as good as many people claim, but his raw athletecism combined with size gives him a huge advantage even in his current level.

    I have to disagree though that he and JV couldn't be on the floor at the same time. Look how effective the Perkings/Ibaka combo was when Perkins arrived from Boston. Both guys were Centres prior to that and I would argue that Ibaka doesn't posess much of any PF skills.

    I would love to see JV paired up with another imposing big. Haven't seen that in Toronto since Davis/Oakley. God, I miss watching those two rough up opposing bigs.

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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I agree, I think Drummond has a long way to go before he can full fill his potential. He's not nearly as good as many people claim, but his raw athletecism combined with size gives him a huge advantage even in his current level.

    I have to disagree though that he and JV couldn't be on the floor at the same time. Look how effective the Perkings/Ibaka combo was when Perkins arrived from Boston. Both guys were Centres prior to that and I would argue that Ibaka doesn't posess much of any PF skills.

    I would love to see JV paired up with another imposing big. Haven't seen that in Toronto since Davis/Oakley. God, I miss watching those two rough up opposing bigs.
    lmao,,,,, me too,,,, ahhhh the good old days. Maybe I related more because that was my style, as I wasn't particularly skilled, but could bang with anybody twice my size, haha. One of those jocks that was pretty damn good at many sports and never focused enough on one to be skilled enough at later levels to excel. Put put me in a rugby match, or a basketball game called very loosely and I was a beast that nobody wanted to f*&^ with!!! lol I digress. I miss that too.

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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I don't believe in Drummond at all.. and you are right that there is only one other center like him.. but he needs to improve a lot and he had motivation issues coming out of college so will he? Alabi had a lot of potential but he's out of the league. 3+D players are not as common as you think they are. Guy can shoot or play D but not both generally... and when they can they are huge commodities since they can be put in any situation (as a starter/on the bench/or in crunch time). Plus they are gold in the playoffs.



    Gasol changed his game but that was more a testament to Phil and his system. Gasol last year played poorly with Howard and was coming off the bench for D'Antoni. If you had the right system it could work, but then JV would be playing forward instead of center.. and I would rather have JV as center.



    There is no proof that Ross (or Lamb if they wanted a SG) could have been had at 14. I'm sure BC was on the phone before making that pick (although it was BC and he doesn't really work a draft in terms of moving up/down). I'm not sure I agree that Ross was picked because of Nash either. I think Ross was picked because they liked him both as a person and as a player. BC is a 'character' guy.. and Ross fits that mold.
    JV shows all the signs of being able to develop into a player that can switch betweenr PF or C, like a Pau Gasol or Tim Duncan (who are both less athletic than JV).

    On defense, he has the speed, length and quickness to guard PFs and will eventually have a strength advantage. On offense, he is already a .400% shooter from just outside of 15ft, with excellent shooting mechanics (0.789 FT%). Again, no reason why he can't develop into a PF that can consistently hit the 18ft jump shot at .400 - .450 clip. He will also nail a few 3s this year too.

    So yeah, Drummond and JV could have been an awesome front court of the future.... sigh.

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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    JV shows all the signs of being able to develop into a player that can switch betweenr PF or C, like a Pau Gasol or Tim Duncan (who are both less athletic than JV).

    On defense, he has the speed, length and quickness to guard PFs and will eventually have a strength advantage. On offense, he is already a .400% shooter from just outside of 15ft, with excellent shooting mechanics (0.789 FT%). Again, no reason why he can't develop into a PF that can consistently hit the 18ft jump shot at .400 - .450 clip. He will also nail a few 3s this year too.

    So yeah, Drummond and JV could have been an awesome front court of the future.... sigh.
    This, I'm really not sure why people think Drummond+JV couldn't have worked. Not only couldn't it have worked, it could've been the best frontcourt in the league since Robinson and Duncan.

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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    This, I'm really not sure why people think Drummond+JV couldn't have worked. Not only couldn't it have worked, it could've been the best frontcourt in the league since Robinson and Duncan.
    Remember when folks here was calling the Bosh-Villenueva combo the next "Twin Towers"?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Remember when folks here was calling the Bosh-Villenueva combo the next "Twin Towers"?
    He was the Jennings before Jennings. That 48 point game late in his rookie year had him getting huge, unwarranted hype.

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