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Thread: ESPN 5-on-5: Rudy Gay most Overrated Small Forward.

  1. #201
    Raptors Republic All-Star TRex's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Pierce is better than Gay.. yes Pierce is 35 and almost done, but he's still better.
    No he's not. Pierce is more of a role player now.
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    No he's not. Pierce is more of a role player now.
    Dude no.

    Pierce outscored both Gay and George
    Pierce out-assisted both Gay and George
    Pierce shot a better TS% than both Gay and George
    Pierce out-rebounded Gay
    Pierce had a lower turnover rate than both players

    There isn't much of an argument to be had here...

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    I don't think Gay is right there below George, i think there are a few more guys in between.

    But yep, I think Pierce has a case that he was the no.4 last year.

  4. #204
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Dude no.

    Pierce outscored both Gay and George
    Pierce out-assisted both Gay and George
    Pierce shot a better TS% than both Gay and George
    Pierce out-rebounded Gay
    Pierce had a lower turnover rate than both players

    There isn't much of an argument to be had here...
    There is cause Pierce is a role player. Same as Danny Green, same as Kwahi leonard. Give pierce the ball in an iso situation and he can't create as well as he used to. He was playing in very team oriented system in Boston where everyone touched the ball. He IS NOT better than Rudy Gay at this state of his career. He's always been slow footed on D and it's only going to get worse from here.
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    There is cause Pierce is a role player. Same as Danny Green, same as Kwahi leonard. Give pierce the ball in an iso situation and he can't create as well as he used to. He was playing in very team oriented system in Boston where everyone touched the ball. He IS NOT better than Rudy Gay at this state of his career. He's always been slow footed on D and it's only going to get worse from here.
    Last year by all accounts he was a better offensive player.

    And dude the Celtics basically ran their offense through Pierce for half the season with Rondo out. To say he's just a role player is just silly imo.

    To be fair though Pierce isn't really a good defender anymore because of his age, so I might give George and Rudy the edge because of that. Kinda hard to measure defense though.

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    It's not like Pierce is a guy like Kawhi with a 15% usage rate, only putting up open shots and putbacks.

    His usage rate was 27% last year, which was higher than George's at 23.5% and slightly lower than Gay's at 29%

  7. #207
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    This is one thing I don't understand. Memphis might be better off FINANCIALLY without Gay, but they aren't better off as a team and it showed in the playoffs.

    I mean they didn't really beat anyone. They beat LAC after losing the first 2 games largely because Blake Griffin got hurt, at which point it was basically CP3 vs. the Grizzlies defense. OKC was also missing their second best player and one of the top 10 players in the league in Westbrook.

    When they finally played a strong, healthy team in the Spurs they got throttled. Primarily because they had nobody who could actually create a shot for themselves (Z-Bo did this in 2011 because his jumpers were falling like he was Kevin Durant, but it didn't work out this year). Marc Gasol only shot 39% from the field in the WCF, that is atrocious regardless of position but especially for a bigman. Z-Bo shot 30% and Mike Conley was at 38%. Why? Stat-heads love to emphasize shooting 3s and scoring inside over the mid-range game, but the problem with that is that teams don't give you a ton of good looks from those areas during the playoffs. If your team can't take advantage of the in-between game and score from mid-range, isos or the high post you are going to get KILLED against a good defense in the playoffs. Period end of story, not up for debate.

    Normally Gay would have been taking and making those shots at a higher clip than the Grizzlies' "Big 3" which definitely would've helped them. Instead those shots were re-distributed to Gasol-Conley-ZBo which resulted in all three of them becoming incredibly inefficient. Basketball isn't all stats. You can't just replace a high usage mediocre efficiency guy with a low usage high efficiency guy and expect your team to become more efficient. Because those shots are going to have to be redistributed somewhere, and they're likely going to go to guys that can't make them at all.
    Memphis has made their longest playoff runs without Gay.

    He's had the chance to help take them further in previous seasons and didn't.

    Mermphis was happy to get rid of him because they don't need a wing making up a stars salary without providing the return a star does (wins).

  8. #208
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Ignoring salary, Memphis could've definitely used a shot-creating wing capable of working in isolation in short clock situations.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  10. #209
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    Stating that Pierce was a role player last season is retarded: 18,6pts 6,3 rebs 4,8asts plus he seemed like the leader on offense and was the #1 option, especialy, when a clutch shot was needed, yes he's getting older, doesnt have the same athleticism, but he's still a great all around player and probably was the third best SF last season

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  12. #210
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    How can he be overrated when there isn't many good things written about him? lol overpaid but not overrated
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    I saw comment about Lowry and Gay (in a way) playing for contract years:

    Uriji probably knows the potential trade value Lowry and Gay after playing like all-stars. He may blow it up after the 2014 draft and we'll be looking forward to 2015 and 2016 when Jonas and said lottery picks come to their own.

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    Quote Fair89 wrote: View Post
    I saw comment about Lowry and Gay (in a way) playing for contract years:

    Uriji probably knows the potential trade value Lowry and Gay after playing like all-stars. He may blow it up after the 2014 draft and we'll be looking forward to 2015 and 2016 when Jonas and said lottery picks come to their own.
    I hope not. If he blows it up, he better do it prior to the stacked 2014 draft

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Ignoring salary, Memphis could've definitely used a shot-creating wing capable of working in isolation in short clock situations.
    Yep this is understated, it cost them bigtime in the WCF where they played against an elite defense for the first time. That's why Gasol, Conley and Z-bo all shot under 40%.

    Quote Vykis wrote: View Post
    Stating that Pierce was a role player last season is retarded: 18,6pts 6,3 rebs 4,8asts plus he seemed like the leader on offense and was the #1 option, especialy, when a clutch shot was needed, yes he's getting older, doesnt have the same athleticism, but he's still a great all around player and probably was the third best SF last season
    Agree with this, except he was 4th best (LBJ KD Melo then him)

    Quote Fair89 wrote: View Post
    I saw comment about Lowry and Gay (in a way) playing for contract years:

    Uriji probably knows the potential trade value Lowry and Gay after playing like all-stars. He may blow it up after the 2014 draft and we'll be looking forward to 2015 and 2016 when Jonas and said lottery picks come to their own.
    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    I hope not. If he blows it up, he better do it prior to the stacked 2014 draft
    Umm actually it's very possible that the 2015 class could be better than 2014. Some guys might stay two years (Parker is already rumored to be doing this) in order to increase their stock or for some college glory. It also might be easier to get into the top 5 in that draft when 7 teams that are significantly worse than us aren't trying to do the same thing.

    Also like Fair89 said we could probably get more back for Gay/Lowry after all-star or near all-star caliber contract years. Ujiri is not afraid to trade players right after signing them as we saw with Nene.

  16. #214
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    My friend, you can't "ignore" salary. You know that Nilanka. lol

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    My friend, you can't "ignore" salary. You know that Nilanka. lol
    What??? I ignore salary all the time! I go to the store to buy milk and eggs, and come home with a $300 grocery bill :|

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  19. #216
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Ignoring salary, Memphis could've definitely used a shot-creating wing capable of working in isolation in short clock situations.
    Exactly. I got grilled on Twitter by Matt Moore during the playoffs when I said I'd rather have Rudy take a big shot than Marc Gasol.

    Gasol can't create his own shot. If you can't feed the post on that possession, you're royally screwed.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Mundy's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Yep this is understated, it cost them bigtime in the WCF where they played against an elite defense for the first time. That's why Gasol, Conley and Z-bo all shot under 40%.



    Agree with this, except he was 4th best (LBJ KD Melo then him)





    Umm actually it's very possible that the 2015 class could be better than 2014. Some guys might stay two years (Parker is already rumored to be doing this) in order to increase their stock or for some college glory. It also might be easier to get into the top 5 in that draft when 7 teams that are significantly worse than us aren't trying to do the same thing.

    Also like Fair89 said we could probably get more back for Gay/Lowry after all-star or near all-star caliber contract years. Ujiri is not afraid to trade players right after signing them as we saw with Nene.
    ....and when you have Bayless playing hero ball, you know there's something missing on the wings.
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  22. #218
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Mundy wrote: View Post
    ....and when you have Bayless playing hero ball, you know there's something missing on the wings.
    Bayless playing Hero ball is what Bayless does and all that Bayless knows.

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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Bunch of people are overreacting as usual. Sigh.

    Who put George in the same sentence with LeBron, Melo and Durant??

    I'm basically ranking the top SF's in the game. I think George is the 4th best SF in the game. But that doesn't mean he's in LeBron or KD or Melo's level. Give your head a shake.

    And yes i think Rudy Gay is the 5th best SF in basketball.
    LOL. I did kinda go off on you, T-Rex. Nothing personal, bro.

    But, NO, I definitely do not think that Paul George is the 4th best SF in the NBA. I would put him in an indistinguishable pool of 2nd tier guys like: Gay, Josh Smith, Pierce, Thad Young, Leonard etc... George is not clearly above any of those guys, IMO.

  24. #220
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Exactly. I got grilled on Twitter by Matt Moore during the playoffs when I said I'd rather have Rudy take a big shot than Marc Gasol.

    Gasol can't create his own shot. If you can't feed the post on that possession, you're royally screwed.
    LMAO! Please post that twitter conversation here. Would love to see it.
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