View Poll Results: Which legacy has left a bigger impression?

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  • Vince Carter's Positive Legacy

    41 89.13%
  • Andrea Bargnani's Negative Legacy

    5 10.87%
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Thread: Bargnani vs. Vince Carter - Raptors Legacy

  1. #1
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    Default Bargnani vs. Vince Carter - Raptors Legacy

    Which legacy that was left behind is bigger?

    Bargnani's negative one or Vince Carter's positive one?

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Its an interesting question

    Vince's was of a larger magnitude, Bargnani's was longer

    Vince's was his own fault (he quit), Bargnani's was Colangelo's (BC drafted him at #1, and then kept forcing him on the team until eventually building around him)

    I'm actually going to go with Bargnani. Vince was a shot in a vital organ, Bargnani was a gut shot

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    Neither. This franchise has done zero, nothing, it hasn't done shit. Nothing really big, and nothing really small has happened for it. Neither player really leaves anything more than statistical evidence that they once played in Toronto.

    Fans like to be dramatic.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Neither. This franchise has done zero, nothing, it hasn't done shit. Nothing really big, and nothing really small has happened for it. Neither player really leaves anything more than statistical evidence that they once played in Toronto.

    Fans like to be dramatic.
    I think one could easily argue that Vince Carters impact on this city goes far beyond Statistics.
    It goes far beyond even on-court contributions if you ask me.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Gotta go with Vince. He energized and inspired a whole nation, and that's probably underrating him a bit.

    Bargs was just a dreadful add-on to a continuing losing culture this team has possessed. Although you can certainly make the argument picking someone different at that #1 spot would've brought a winning impact, you cannot solely put 6 years of losing on one guy.
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I think one could easily argue that Vince Carters impact on this city goes far beyond Statistics.
    It goes far beyond even on-court contributions if you ask me.
    Very easily. So easily. That I infact don't think it needs to be argued or even brought up. That's not even me trying to be a dick. It's just evidently clear that he had a very lasting impact.
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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    didn't realize the question was about VCs 'positive' effect.

    I think Vince's negative effect easily out weighs some short term and whats been meaningless attention he brought the organization.

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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    didn't realize the question was about VCs 'positive' effect.

    I think Vince's negative effect easily out weighs some short term and whats been meaningless attention he brought the organization.
    First of all... I accidentally voted for Bargnani in the poll.

    Secondly, dude without Vince we probably wouldn't have a team right now. He was one of if not the most popular player(s) in the league during his time here (and even when he moved on to New Jersey). He's the reason basketball has gotten so big in Toronto, not just at the NBA level but now you have kids in the GTA aspiring to be in the NBA, that was not happening before he got here.

    I shudder to think about what state (lol do you see what I did there) this team might be in if we had drafted Antawn Jamison instead of Carter.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I think one could easily argue that Vince Carters impact on this city goes far beyond Statistics.
    It goes far beyond even on-court contributions if you ask me.
    I completely agree with this.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Vince he brought us to the cusp of legitimacy If he stayed we could have easily been competing for championships but I doubt we would have taken one from Kobe and Shaq's Showtime remix.

    Seriously Im probably the only fan that wants VC back I think hed be great off the bench for the Raps. (gets a riot shield ready to protect from stoning)

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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Vince he brought us to the cusp of legitimacy If he stayed we could have easily been competing for championships but I doubt we would have taken one from Kobe and Shaq's Showtime remix.

    Seriously Im probably the only fan that wants VC back I think hed be great off the bench for the Raps. (gets a riot shield ready to protect from stoning)
    I'm all in favor of this as well. Vince is still one of the best 2s in the league.

  14. #12
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    First of all... I accidentally voted for Bargnani in the poll.

    Secondly, dude without Vince we probably wouldn't have a team right now. He was one of if not the most popular player(s) in the league during his time here (and even when he moved on to New Jersey). He's the reason basketball has gotten so big in Toronto, not just at the NBA level but now you have kids in the GTA aspiring to be in the NBA, that was not happening before he got here.

    I shudder to think about what state (lol do you see what I did there) this team might be in if we had drafted Antawn Jamison instead of Carter.
    Why do you say that? The threat of Toronto moving was from internal ownership issues. But that was cleared up when MLSE bought the Raptors, which happened 3 months prior to Vince even being drafted.

    As for him being the reason Basketball got so big in Toronto, perhaps thats true. Or perhaps it was just the natural evolution of bringing a NBA franchise into Toronto itself, with Vince just so happening to be here at the same time as the Raptors early formation. Plus we could be talking about McGrady in a very similar manner had Vince never put on a Raptors uniform. We can see years and years after Vince, Toronto is still one of the more profitable and valuable franchises. MLSE is alot of things people don't like, but the one thing they are is great business men.

    Vince's league wide attention, while not being particularily important to me (do I really care that John Smith in Idaho favorite player was Vince?), only lasted so long. And aside from helping MLSE sell more jerseys, I'm not sure it did anything to improve the franchise. Free agents weren't magically lining up to come to Toronto, and in fact the Raptors own leader/captain, Antonio Davis, was ready to leave. (heard an interesting story that this was actually directly related to Vince and more specifically Vince's lack of effort while ownership/management treated him like a princess) When Vince stopped producing and caring, the world stopped following, and those that did keep following turned their attention to NJ when he was traded.

    Vince grabbed attention while he was here and dunking, and that attention disappeared as quickly as his willingness to get to the rim.

    On the other hand, the way he left, the cost of losing a player the franchise had built around mid contract, took years to sort out. And while I'm sure people are going to point out Babcock sucks and that trade was terrible - lets not forget how Vince amplified that by destroying his trade value 1) demanding a trade 2) not trying and producing on the court 3) trying to make himself a public pariah

    If we want to say Vince was the reason the Raptors became globally relevant. I will say that the relevancy held no legacy, and in the end, the way he forced his way out was the single greatest reason Toronto became irrelevant to the NBA. (well until Colangelo took over and cemented irrelevancy)
    Last edited by Craiger; Fri Aug 9th, 2013 at 07:24 AM.

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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Vince he brought us to the cusp of legitimacy If he stayed we could have easily been competing for championships but I doubt we would have taken one from Kobe and Shaq's Showtime remix.

    Seriously Im probably the only fan that wants VC back I think hed be great off the bench for the Raps. (gets a riot shield ready to protect from stoning)
    What... Vince left the team in 04-05, the Lakers three-peat was over and Shaq was with the Heat. If he stayed we wouldn't have been competing against Kobe and Shaq. We would've been competing against the Heat, Pistons and Cavs in the East and the Spurs/Mavs out west. Not sure we would've even been a title contender though even with Vince and Bosh.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie OldSchool's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I think one could easily argue that Vince Carters impact on this city goes far beyond Statistics.
    It goes far beyond even on-court contributions if you ask me.
    Agree with this 100%...what a silly question.

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    Quote OldSchool wrote: View Post
    Agree with this 100%...what a silly question.
    There's no need to condemn the whole thread and call the question silly.

    The reason I brought it up is because of how significant the ire that Bargnani brought to this franchise is/was. I think it's something people are still going to be talking about and referencing to a few years from now even though he's no longer on our team.

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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    There's no need to condemn the whole thread and call the question silly.

    The reason I brought it up is because of how significant the ire that Bargnani brought to this franchise is/was. I think it's something people are still going to be talking about and referencing to a few years from now even though he's no longer on our team.
    Bargnani definitely brought some ire to the city but i don't think that 'ire' has any true significance to the franchise at all. He was a failed player who disappointed the city and people hated him. period. - he wasn't the first and he won't be the last. I could see myself talking basketball in a bar sometime in the future and Barg's name may come up, yes, but so will other names...personally Hedo disgust me more.

    Also, Im trying to figure out what you mean by the 'ire' being 'significant'? and then comparing that with the positivity that Vince brought? huh? sorry dude, nothing personal here just trying to understand. Yes, Bargs never lived up to expectations or maybe our expectations were too high. Yes, as it turned out, we wasted a first overall pick on the guy - but at the time it seemed like a healthy gamble....anyways, these are different questions all together. Vince's impact however, now that was significant. People on here may say it wasn't a lasting significance or it didn't mean anything since we've never accomplished anything but i disagree. Vince brought Toronto to the NBA map more so than any other player before him or since...easily

  19. #17
    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I think one could easily argue that Vince Carters impact on this city goes far beyond Statistics.
    It goes far beyond even on-court contributions if you ask me.
    Totally agree. Anyone trying to brush aside Vince's time in Toronto is just being obnoxiously indifferent.

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    Quote OldSchool wrote: View Post
    Bargnani definitely brought some ire to the city but i don't think that 'ire' has any true significance to the franchise at all. He was a failed player who disappointed the city and people hated him. period. - he wasn't the first and he won't be the last. I could see myself talking basketball in a bar sometime in the future and Barg's name may come up, yes, but so will other names...personally Hedo disgust me more.

    Also, Im trying to figure out what you mean by the 'ire' being 'significant'? and then comparing that with the positivity that Vince brought? huh? sorry dude, nothing personal here just trying to understand. Yes, Bargs never lived up to expectations or maybe our expectations were too high. Yes, as it turned out, we wasted a first overall pick on the guy - but at the time it seemed like a healthy gamble....anyways, these are different questions all together. Vince's impact however, now that was significant. People on here may say it wasn't a lasting significance or it didn't mean anything since we've never accomplished anything but i disagree. Vince brought Toronto to the NBA map more so than any other player before him or since...easily
    Everything you just said is your opinion... and that's ok.

    But there are some people who would disagree so that's why this thread was made.

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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    Totally agree. Anyone trying to brush aside Vince's time in Toronto is just being obnoxiously indifferent.
    I was on RealGM and a bunch of them were saying they'd be "done" with the Raptors if they retired his jersey.... seriously guys?

    Vince's jersey should be retired the second his career is over.

  22. #20
    Raptors Republic Rookie OldSchool's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Everything you just said is your opinion... and that's ok.

    But there are some people who would disagree so that's why this thread was made.
    Dude you didn't read what i wrote. What is it you're trying to ask with this thread? which player had more of an impact to the team right? Just curious, what do you think Bargnani's legacy to the franchise is?

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