View Poll Results: Which legacy has left a bigger impression?

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  • Vince Carter's Positive Legacy

    41 89.13%
  • Andrea Bargnani's Negative Legacy

    5 10.87%
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Thread: Bargnani vs. Vince Carter - Raptors Legacy

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    I was on RealGM and a bunch of them were saying they'd be "done" with the Raptors if they retired his jersey.... seriously guys?

    Vince's jersey should be retired the second his career is over.
    I believe that would be a good move for Toronto to make I wish Amir would wear another number.....I love Amir but I dont think anyone should rock the 15.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote OldSchool wrote: View Post
    Just curious, what do you think Bargnani's legacy to the franchise is?
    Exactly. He has no lasting legacy with this team. He's just another player added to a list of failures this franchise has dealt with.

    Vince impacted this team long after he was gone. We would've already forgotten about Bargs had it not been for new threads popping up regarding him every couple days.

  3. #23
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    Quote OldSchool wrote: View Post
    Dude you didn't read what i wrote. What is it you're trying to ask with this thread? which player had more of an impact to the team right? Just curious, what do you think Bargnani's legacy to the franchise is?
    My vote is for Vince Carter:

    Quote Xixak wrote:
    First of all... I accidentally voted for Bargnani in the poll.
    I don't disagree with your posts or opinion, I just don't like the fact that you called it a silly question when there are obviously some people who think Bargnani's was more significant.

  4. #24
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Exactly. He has no lasting legacy with this team. He's just another player added to a list of failures this franchise has dealt with.

    We would've already forgotten about Bargs had it not been for new threads popping up regarding him every couple days.
    Disagree.
    If that were the case, then Bargs wouldn't get booed when he comes here.. and you know he will be.
    I won't be doing it, but I know he will be.
    And that being the point.. Toronto fans don't EVER forget when you've slighted them as a fanbase.
    And it could be argued, and I believe this is the heart of the debate here, is that Bargnani's failure to live up to the fanbase's expectations, legit or unfounded, has set us back perhaps more than Carter ever brought us forward.
    In Masai we Trust.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Rookie OldSchool's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Disagree.
    If that were the case, then Bargs wouldn't get booed when he comes here.. and you know he will be.
    I won't be doing it, but I know he will be.
    And that being the point.. Toronto fans don't EVER forget when you've slighted them as a fanbase.
    And it could be argued, and I believe this is the heart of the debate here, is that Bargnani's failure to live up to the fanbase's expectations, legit or unfounded, has set us back perhaps more than Carter ever brought us forward.
    Just because a player gets booed doesn't mean they have any sort of lasting or meaningful legacy to the team. Sure he'll get booed, maybe worse than VC and Tmac got or maybe not...so what? For the other 70+ games that we don't play NewYork the team and the city won't even be thinking about Bargs...he'll be an afterthought.

    IsaacThompson got it right when he said "We would've already forgotten about Bargs had it not been for new threads popping up regarding him every couple days" and if Bargs name keeps popping up in threads here and there is proof of a legacy than thats peanuts compared to what Vince did for the team.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    In no way does Carter deserve to have his jersey retired in Toronto. I acknowledge he's the best player to ever wear a uniform, but that speaks more about how crappy this franchise has been since inception.

    Hall-of-famers deserve to have their jerseys retired. Carter isn't a hall-of-famer.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  7. #27
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Hall-of-famers deserve to have their jerseys retired. Carter isn't a hall-of-famer.
    This has been discussed at length before, but the case for Vince making the HOF is actually ALOT stronger than some would have you believe. But if Vince isn't inducted, he would be only the second player to appear in 8 All-Star games, and not be selected.

    Eric Freeman (found here) and Zach Lowe (found here) have made some very strong cases for Vince in the HOF.

    According to Basketball-Reference.com, Vince is 14th in line- out of all active players, to be inducted to the HOF, with a probability of 76.8%.
    In Masai we Trust.

  8. Like Xixak liked this post
  9. #28
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    This has been discussed at length before, but the case for Vince making the HOF is actually ALOT stronger than some would have you believe. But if Vince isn't inducted, he would be only the second player to appear in 8 All-Star games, and not be selected.

    Eric Freeman (found here) and Zach Lowe (found here) have made some very strong cases for Vince in the HOF.

    According to Basketball-Reference.com, Vince is 14th in line- out of all active players, to be inducted to the HOF, with a probability of 76.8%.
    Right, but since we're discussing retiring Carter's jersey in Toronto, I tend not to put any weight on his achievements post trade.

    I ask myself, "did Vince Carter have a HOF-worthy career while playing for the Raptors?". IMO, the answer is an easy "no".
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  10. #29
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    The way Carter left Toronto has a huge bearing (for me personally) on whether or not he should have his number retired. He did not leave with class.. in my opinion Jose should be near to the top of the list of retired jerseys but he didn't have much of an impact on the court.

    The Raptors could do what Orlando did and put #6 in the rafters for the 'Fans' being their 'sixth man'.. lol

    The list of retired jerseys can be found here:
    http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-retired-numbers.shtml

  11. #30
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    the way i understood the question, IMO, its pretty much equal.

    The disdain i felt for Bargnani pretty much equals the love i felt for Vince when he carried this Toronto team to new heights.

  12. #31
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    The way Carter left Toronto has a huge bearing (for me personally) on whether or not he should have his number retired. He did not leave with class.. in my opinion Jose should be near to the top of the list of retired jerseys but he didn't have much of an impact on the court.

    The Raptors could do what Orlando did and put #6 in the rafters for the 'Fans' being their 'sixth man'.. lol

    The list of retired jerseys can be found here:
    http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-retired-numbers.shtml
    I too still feel the hurt with how VC left but i think the positives farther outweighs the negatives he did for Toronto and the Raptors.

    I think his jersey definitely needs to be retired and hung on the ACC rafters.

    I dont believe Jose has accomplished enough to have his jersey retired and put up there.

    VC and Bosh most definitely.

  13. #32
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    This has been discussed at length before, but the case for Vince making the HOF is actually ALOT stronger than some would have you believe. But if Vince isn't inducted, he would be only the second player to appear in 8 All-Star games, and not be selected.

    Eric Freeman (found here) and Zach Lowe (found here) have made some very strong cases for Vince in the HOF.

    According to Basketball-Reference.com, Vince is 14th in line- out of all active players, to be inducted to the HOF, with a probability of 76.8%.
    This... Vince is a virtual Hall-of-Fame lock.
    Last edited by Xixak; Fri Aug 9th, 2013 at 12:15 PM.

  14. #33
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    This has been discussed at length before, but the case for Vince making the HOF is actually ALOT stronger than some would have you believe. But if Vince isn't inducted, he would be only the second player to appear in 8 All-Star games, and not be selected.

    Eric Freeman (found here) and Zach Lowe (found here) have made some very strong cases for Vince in the HOF.

    According to Basketball-Reference.com, Vince is 14th in line- out of all active players, to be inducted to the HOF, with a probability of 76.8%.
    I think he should be inducted. For sure.

    Im surprised Chauncey only has a 22% chance, considering he has a ring, was a finals MVP and numerous all-star, all-nba and defensive team apprearances.

  15. #34
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    I hate when people envy Vince Carter like he's some god. You guys do know that even if we didn't have Vince, T Mac would've easily given us what Vince did?
    and after the way he ditched the franchise you guy's want to retire his Jersey? Do you know how pathetic that makes our team look. All the BS about "Putting Canada on the map" doesn't have as much to do with Carter as you all think. The Raptors were already beginning to get popular after the Drafting of Mighty Mouse and T Mac. It just all came to together coincidentally when Carter got drafted. The Dunk contest and a few playoff games vs the Sixers is all i'm giving him credit for, based off that he SHOULD NOT have his jersey retired.

  16. #35
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    I hate when people envy Vince Carter like he's some god. You guys do know that even if we didn't have Vince, T Mac would've easily given us what Vince did?
    and after the way he ditched the franchise you guy's want to retire his Jersey? Do you know how pathetic that makes our team look. All the BS about "Putting Canada on the map" doesn't have as much to do with Carter as you all think. The Raptors were already beginning to get popular after the Drafting of Mighty Mouse and T Mac. It just all came to together coincidentally when Carter got drafted. The Dunk contest and a few playoff games vs the Sixers is all i'm giving him credit for, based off that he SHOULD NOT have his jersey retired.
    Dude T-Mac was gone to Orlando regardless.

    And part of the reason he wasn't playing like a star in Toronto is because we were kind of using him as a stretch 4 lol.

  17. #36
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Till we win a championship i don't think anyone deserves to have their Jersey retired. UNLESS someone like Amir Johnson plays out the rest of their career here.

  18. #37
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Dude T-Mac was gone to Orlando regardless.

    And part of the reason he wasn't playing like a star in Toronto is because we were kind of using him as a stretch 4 lol.
    In a scenario where we draft someone else instead of Carter. T Mac would end up being the focal point and thus would have stayed here and put up the numbers he did in Orlando.

  19. #38
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    the BS about "Putting Canada on the map" doesn't have as much to do with Carter as you all think. The Raptors were already beginning to get popular after the Drafting of Mighty Mouse and T Mac. It just all came to together coincidentally when Carter got drafted. The Dunk contest and a few playoff games vs the Sixers is all i'm giving him credit for, based off that he SHOULD NOT have his jersey retired.
    I don't want this to come off the wrong way, but weren't you like 5 when this was all going down? Lol

    Vince Carter took the popularity of the Raptors in Toronto, and Canada for that matter, from a 4/10 to 10/10, and in doing so, not just revitalized a fanbase; he gave birth to a whole fanbase.
    In Masai we Trust.

  20. #39
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I don't want this to come off the wrong way, but weren't you like 5 when this was all going down? Lol

    Vince Carter took the popularity of the Raptors in Toronto, and Canada for that matter, from a 4/10 to 10/10, and in doing so, not just revitalized a fanbase; he gave birth to a whole fanbase.
    Yes i was quite young. But i still know how it went down, i had cousins who used to follow the Raptors back then. Honestly i think we're overrating his impact. If it wasn't Vince it would have been T Mac or someone else that put us on the map. Vince's crazy dunking skills played a big role though, i'll give you that.

  21. #40
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    In a scenario where we draft someone else instead of Carter. T Mac would end up being the focal point and thus would have stayed here and put up the numbers he did in Orlando.
    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Yes i was quite young. But i still know how it went down, i had cousins who used to follow the Raptors back then. Honestly i think we're overrating his impact. If it wasn't Vince it would have been T Mac or someone else that put us on the map. Vince's crazy dunking skills played a big role though, i'll give you that.
    Dude no. TMac left because he wanted to play in his hometown.

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