ESPN 2013-14 East Standings [update: Post #86]

[slaw]

Only guy on the team that seems to know how to throw an entry pass to the post.

I would have gone with Amir Johnson on that one.

[p00ka]

What the hell are you talking about? Brand is a really good defender. His D Rating the last 3 years has been 103, 96, and 102. Those are great numbers. For comparison, Josh Smith's D Rating the past 3 years has been 102, 96, and 101. Almost exactly the same as Brand. Furthermore, Brand has been an above average defender his entire career, which makes your statement even more perplexing.

The Hawks bench was weak as hell last year and has only gotten better (guys like Deshawn Stevenson and Anthony Tolliver were getting heavy minutes off the bench last year). Josh Smith was replaced by Millsap, who also happens to be really really good in case you haven't noticed.

Not sure why you bring up Horford playing out of position, since as you mentioned he's been doing it his whole career and has made multiple all star games and taken the Hawks to the playoffs every single year of his career.

I openly admit to generally not being in favour of using stats to compare players, especially those on different teams, playing within different systems, but this DRtg thing has to be one of the worst. I'm not making a judgement of Brand's D vs Smith's D, merely the use of this stat to evaluate/compare.

For starters, this stat is partially based on ESTIMATES. That alone raises a red flag to me. It's also based on someone's subjective view of a player missing an assignment. Another red flag to me. Like with most stats, it also doesn't take into account, quality of opponent, for example mostly playing against against starters vs backups.

Personally, I think it also varies considerably upon the system being employed by the coach, and the other players surrounding the given player. For some examples:
- "No defense" Bargnani went from 115 the year before, to 106 in Casey's first year. Did he suddenly become a much better defender, or was that a product of team defense?
- Iguodala went from 98 2 years ago in Philly, to 105 last year in Denver. Did he suddenly become a worse defender, and essentially an equal defender to what Bargs was 2 years ago?
- Ray Allen's DRtg for his last 4 years in Seattle was 110, 112, 116, 112. In his first year with Boston, he suddenly dropped to 103. Did he suddenly become a much better defender in his 13th year in the NBA, or was that more to do with the system and players around him?

That stat seems a little sketchy to me.

[NoPropsneeded]

What the hell are you talking about? Brand is a really good defender. His D Rating the last 3 years has been 103, 96, and 102. Those are great numbers. For comparison, Josh Smith's D Rating the past 3 years has been 102, 96, and 101. Almost exactly the same as Brand. Furthermore, Brand has been an above average defender his entire career, which makes your statement even more perplexing.

The Hawks bench was weak as hell last year and has only gotten better (guys like Deshawn Stevenson and Anthony Tolliver were getting heavy minutes off the bench last year). Josh Smith was replaced by Millsap, who also happens to be really really good in case you haven't noticed.

Not sure why you bring up Horford playing out of position, since as you mentioned he's been doing it his whole career and has made multiple all star games and taken the Hawks to the playoffs every single year of his career.

First of all. I don't believe in advanced stats like D rating because they are super sketchy and hardly tell the whole story. Secondly Horford has only made the all star game because of the lack of true C's in the league. He's an undersized C and that is a problem against teams like Indiana, NYC, Brooklyn, and Us of course. sure Horford takes them to the playoffs, then what? they get bounced in the first round like every year. The team has no internal growth at all (they have some now, thanks to dennis scroeder). I just don't think the Hawks are a very good team, it just looks like they are throwing together average to slightly above average players and trying to make the playoffs. I DO NOT see them as a BIG threat, yes they have proved that they can make the playoffs. But it is a new team now with a different coach and a different system.

[magoon]

Just for fun and because it involves two teams in the "trying to snag a 7-8 seed" race that Toronto's in, Milwaukee is going to sign-and-trade Brandon Jennings to Detroit for Brandon Knight, Khris Middleton and Slava Kravtsov.

I'm honestly not sure if that makes Detroit any better or what.

[NoPropsneeded]

Just for fun and because it involves two teams in the "trying to snag a 7-8 seed" race that Toronto's in, Milwaukee is going to sign-and-trade Brandon Jennings to Detroit for Brandon Knight, Khris Middleton and Slava Kravtsov.

I'm honestly not sure if that makes Detroit any better or what.

It makes them worse on both ends. Good bye ball movement and hello Jennings and Smith ISO's

[p00ka]

Just for fun and because it involves two teams in the "trying to snag a 7-8 seed" race that Toronto's in, Milwaukee is going to sign-and-trade Brandon Jennings to Detroit for Brandon Knight, Khris Middleton and Slava Kravtsov.

I'm honestly not sure if that makes Detroit any better or what.

lol, Dumars swinging wildly for the fences again, and seems to be hoping he can re-create his luck with Sheed,,,, as in chasing dysfunctional talent. Milicic, CV/Gordon, Drummond (may have lucked out there), now Smith/Jennings.

I don't know how the hell these pieces fit together, but it may be interesting to watch if nothing else. Maybe Chauncey can help this bunch?

[MoscowRussia]

It makes them worse on both ends. Good bye ball movement and hello Jennings and Smith ISO's

Still see Raptors loosing a couple of close games to them.

[KeonClark]

Still see Raptors loosing a couple of close games to them.

Even if it helps Detroit, it hurts Milwaukee. The whole thing is a wash as far as affecting the playoff chances.

[mcHAPPY]

jdawgg

Is the raptors a sure lock for playoff this year? how much money u think i should put down on them lol . really

Alex Kennedy

I don’t think so. While they’ll have a shot in the Eastern Conference, there are an awful lot of teams fighting for the final three playoff spots in the East. I think we all agree that the top five will be the Heat, Pacers, Nets, Bulls and Knicks in some order. After that, you have the Raptors, Cavaliers, Wizards, Pistons and Hawks, not to mention wild cards like the Bucks and Celtics (assuming they aren’t tanking). Like I said, they’ll definitely have a shot, but I wouldn’t put any money down. I’m not that confident that they’ll make it.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-chat-w...x-kennedy-8713

That is reality right there. 7 teams competing for 3 spots - and I'm not as down on Charlotte as many so a possible 8th.

[Mundy]

Great post. Atlanta has been in the playoffs for how long now. We still have to prove that we're good enough to get in. Our team added who, Hansbrough, Augustine, Buycks and Novak. None of those players will make a huge difference in the W's column. Everything will hinge on our starting line up playing well enough. Right now the only starter we can say with some certainty that will play better is Jonas Valanciunas.

I can agree that it was a good post but there's more to the Hawks than just replacing Smith with Millsap's offense. Frankly Smith is a facilitator, one of the most underrated passing forwards in the league and an defensive monster. It was also mentioned that they played without Zaza for a stretch, now they'll have him for zero games. I just don't see them being any better by adding an unknown in Shroeder (although there's definitely potential there) and a year-older Brand. Losing your best player when you're barely above .500 shouldn't help the rankings.

In any event I certainly agree that it's on us to climb the rankings, but to say that we're only as good as our record last year is saying that you didn't watch any raps games after the first 23.

[DG88]

ESPN 2013-14 East Standings

ESPN ranks us 10th in the East with a 3-49 record. Can anyone said rev the tank. Also Atlanta, Washington, Cleveland and Detroit are ranked above us.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/95...east-standings

[wallz]

I still think the Raptors have a better roster than washington. so I guess all these 'experts' think washington will be better based on John Wall becoming a perennial super-star

[isaacthompson]

I don't get all the Wizards hype. Apparently John Wall, a second-year Bradley Beal and a 30-year-old Nene will carry this team to a playoff spot.

[JimiCliff]

I don't get all the Wizards hype. Apparently John Wall, a second-year Bradley Beal and a 30-year-old Nene will carry this team to a playoff spot.

Numbers show that when they had a full roster last year, they played really, really well.

[JimiCliff]

That said, the hype is a little hard to understand. But it could just be that Wall is that good.