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Thread: This Team Needs to Attack the Rim on Offense

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    That's partly why Lowry was so exciting at the beginning of last year -- he was getting to the rim so easily. Then not so much after he went down with that first injury. Not sure if that was because of the injury nagging, or because of some other injury, or because of Casey's muzzle, or some combination of all of them, but it'd be great to see him get back to that.
    It seemed like the greatest influence was how well Jose started running the offense during Lowry's absence. Lowry either thought to himself, "I need to play more like Jose"....or he was told to do so by the coaching staff.

    But I agree Lowry didn't finish the year playing anything close to the same style he started the year with.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Also, if you're talking about Denver scoring at the rim - their point guard may be the quickest player in the league. Huge advantage there.

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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    That's partly why Lowry was so exciting at the beginning of last year -- he was getting to the rim so easily. Then not so much after he went down with that first injury. Not sure if that was because of the injury nagging, or because of some other injury, or because of Casey's muzzle, or some combination of all of them, but it'd be great to see him get back to that.
    Those first few games were incredible:

    21pts, 8asts, 7rebs, 5stls on 6-11 FG, 2-3 3PT, 7-7 FT
    28pts, 8asts, 8rebs, 3stls on 9-19 FG, 4-10 3PT, 6-7 FT
    22pts, 5asts, 7rebs, 3stls on 8-10 FG, 2-3 3PT, 4-4 FT

    And then he got hurt. Iirc for those 3 games he was the top fantasy player in the NBA, dude looked like a legitimate superstar.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    What happened again? Did he sprain his ankle?

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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    What happened again? Did he sprain his ankle?
    Yep



    He actually didn't play that bad after coming back though. In the 6 games between his 1st and second injury where he played 30+ minutes, he averaged:

    21.8ppg
    5.3rpg
    7.0apg
    1.2spg

    38.8% FG
    38.4% 3PT
    81.6% FT
    54.8% TS%

    It was after that second injury that he really fell off the map.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Rookie Mundy's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Those first few games were incredible:

    21pts, 8asts, 7rebs, 5stls on 6-11 FG, 2-3 3PT, 7-7 FT
    28pts, 8asts, 8rebs, 3stls on 9-19 FG, 4-10 3PT, 6-7 FT
    22pts, 5asts, 7rebs, 3stls on 8-10 FG, 2-3 3PT, 4-4 FT

    And then he got hurt. Iirc for those 3 games he was the top fantasy player in the NBA, dude looked like a legitimate superstar.
    Yep.... I think the top fantasy players for the first week were....

    Kyle Lowry
    Lebron James
    Kevin Durant

    I was like "hooray!
    Then the sprained ankle happened and I was like "oh yeah, we're the Raptors"
    "This just in........ THE RAPTORS ARE AMAZING!"

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    I'd argue that we have more offensive talent than that Nuggets team, better defensive players and either equal or better rebounding. We also have the athleticism to push the pace offensively while still playing great defense (despite their pace Denver was still 11th in defense). So why the hell isn't it happening?
    You really think the Raps have more talent than a 57-win Denver team? The Nuggets had so many quality players Karl couldn't find minutes for everyone. More than that, the collection of players Denver has (or had) compliment(ed) each other on the floor in a way that the "big-fat-ball-of-elastic bands-glue-duct tape-paper mache-pile of crap" roster that Colangelo built doesn't.

    Even after last year, people are still badly overestimating this roster. It's going to be another major disappointment for some people this season.

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  9. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    You really think the Raps have more talent than a 57-win Denver team? The Nuggets had so many quality players Karl couldn't find minutes for everyone. More than that, the collection of players Denver has (or had) compliment(ed) each other on the floor in a way that the "big-fat-ball-of-elastic bands-glue-duct tape-paper mache-pile of crap" roster that Colangelo built doesn't.

    Even after last year, people are still badly overestimating this roster. It's going to be another major disappointment for some people this season.
    That's the bottom line on these forums. This is why the circle keeps turning on discussions of tank/no-tank, Gay/Derozan/Lowry, etc. One sub-section of fans thinks quite highly of the current roster, and the other sub-section sees significant flaws.

    Never the twain shall meet.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    You really think the Raps have more talent than a 57-win Denver team? The Nuggets had so many quality players Karl couldn't find minutes for everyone. More than that, the collection of players Denver has (or had) compliment(ed) each other on the floor in a way that the "big-fat-ball-of-elastic bands-glue-duct tape-paper mache-pile of crap" roster that Colangelo built doesn't.

    Even after last year, people are still badly overestimating this roster. It's going to be another major disappointment for some people this season.
    I'm not overestimating the roster. I expect us to win anywhere from 35-41 games. This has a lot to do with the team being poorly coached.

    People kind of underestimate how big of an impact good coaching can make on a team. Look at the Grizzlies and tell me what amazing talents they had that allowed them to win 56 games. It's not a coincidence either that unknown players go to the Spurs and play amazing, then wet the bed as soon as they go elsewhere (Roger Mason Jr. anyone?).

    Yes, winning in the NBA is about talent, but it's also about maximizing the talent you have.

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  12. #30
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    I'm not overestimating the roster. I expect us to win anywhere from 35-41 games. This has a lot to do with the team being poorly coached.

    People kind of underestimate how big of an impact good coaching can make on a team. Look at the Grizzlies and tell me what amazing talents they had that allowed them to win 56 games. It's not a coincidence either that unknown players go to the Spurs and play amazing, then wet the bed as soon as they go elsewhere (Roger Mason Jr. anyone?).

    Yes, winning in the NBA is about talent, but it's also about maximizing the talent you have.
    Well said!

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  14. #31
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    That's the bottom line on these forums. This is why the circle keeps turning on discussions of tank/no-tank, Gay/Derozan/Lowry, etc. One sub-section of fans thinks quite highly of the current roster, and the other sub-section sees significant flaws.

    Never the twain shall meet.
    Speaking for myself at least, the tank/no-tank divide isn't as simply defined as that, perhaps on either side.

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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    Speaking for myself at least, the tank/no-tank divide isn't as simply defined as that, perhaps on either side.
    Exactly lol. Not all the anti-tankers think this is a 50 win team.

    I'm just opposed to selling low on players. Trading Lowry and Gay now just to tank would be kind of silly, especially considering it's very likely that they will raise their value during this season since they're in contract years (and also in bigger roles than they have been for most of their careers). Pretty sure Ujiri knows this as well.

  16. #33
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    I'm not overestimating the roster. I expect us to win anywhere from 35-41 games. This has a lot to do with the team being poorly coached.

    People kind of underestimate how big of an impact good coaching can make on a team. Look at the Grizzlies and tell me what amazing talents they had that allowed them to win 56 games. It's not a coincidence either that unknown players go to the Spurs and play amazing, then wet the bed as soon as they go elsewhere (Roger Mason Jr. anyone?).

    Yes, winning in the NBA is about talent, but it's also about maximizing the talent you have.
    Just like it was no coincidence that player after player had career years with Nash feeding them, then fizzled elsewhere.

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  18. #34
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    Just like it was no coincidence that player after player had career years with Nash feeding them, then fizzled elsewhere.
    Yep player performance is LARGELY a product of the role and system that they're in.

    Some teams make the mistake of trying to mold players into what they want them to be, instead of maximizing and improving on the talents they already have. Generally these teams do not perform well. We saw it right here in Toronto, with the Raptors trying to develop Bargnani as a center when that was clearly not what he was designed to do.

    As much as we hate the guy for his laziness. If he had been drafted by a team with a better player development system I'm sure he would've turned out much differently.

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  20. #35
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Some teams make the mistake of trying to mold players into what they want them to be, instead of maximizing and improving on the talents they already have.
    Well said. A lot of coaches, basketball as well as football, are regimental types without a lick of creativity, except perhaps in Xs and Ox. They especially have trouble with guys that are unconventional in their skill sets or general approach to the game. Then there are coaches that do not have sufficient psychological insight into their players, if any, and just tell so-and-so to do what they are told without any kind of support or motivational strategy.

    Right now, the Indiana Pacers are taking a guy who played most of his life as a scoring guard, George Hill, and have turned him into a pretty decent point guard. The Atlanta Hawks once again are playing a natural power forward, Al Horford, as a center. Both those players have done admirably, but might do even better if they played positions more suited to their game.

  21. #36
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    You really think the Raps have more talent than a 57-win Denver team? The Nuggets had so many quality players Karl couldn't find minutes for everyone. More than that, the collection of players Denver has (or had) compliment(ed) each other on the floor in a way that the "big-fat-ball-of-elastic bands-glue-duct tape-paper mache-pile of crap" roster that Colangelo built doesn't.

    Even after last year, people are still badly overestimating this roster. It's going to be another major disappointment for some people this season.
    I'm surprised it took so many replies before someone stated the obvious. The original thread post says we have better offensive players, better defensive players and equal rebounding to a team that won 57 games....if that is true, then either George Karl is the greatest coach (was let go by the team) or that Casey is the worst coach; I personally believe neither to be true.


    A big part of the Nuggets success that cannot be duplicated is that they play in Denver with the elevation. Don't think that's a big factor? Denver went 38-3 at home last year and were 3 games under .500 on the road (19-22). That is too big of a disparity to ignore.

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  23. #37
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    This makes perfect sense - The Raptors are the greatest 34 win team in the history of the sport.

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  25. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    We have better offensive talent yet we fall short of the Nuggets in virtually every offensive metric. We have better defensive talent yet fall short in a bunch of defensive metrics beyond raw points allowed per game (attributed to Denver's breakneck pace).

    Naturally, when you have superior talent on both sides of the ball compared to a certain team... you lose 23 more games than them in a season.

  26. #39
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Highest point in Toronto is at Steeles West and Keele at a whopping 685 feet above sea level (Denver 5280 feet above). I guess we have no choice but to get a better team guys.

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    Never mind this thread. Let's just get what we can for Gay, Lowry, DeMar Amir and roll out this lineup:

    Augustin
    Buycks
    Ross
    Daye
    Val

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