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  • #16
    And Charlotte is a really bad comparison. Why? Because the best college basketball teams are all in the area and those are where most people's attention and allegiance is devoted to. Ignoring issues of population, market size, and ownership, Charlotte was always going to have a hard time. It was easier for them in the early years. They were a new product and then experienced some decent success. Then inconsistencies started, and fans all flocked back to college ball instead, where globally popular strong teams like Duke and NC (and Wake Forest and NC state to a lesser extent) are consistently playing for higher stakes.

    This is also tied to economy. Charlotte ain't exactly wealthy, so why would fans spend twice the money to watch both NCAA and NBA? THey won't. THey'll cut off the worse product, which in their area is NBA ball, and stick to the powerhouse NCAA teams in their area. Pretty basic substitution effect really.

    This is pretty damn unlikely to occur in Toronto. So again, a lot of shit would have to go wrong to destroy the Raptors viability in Toronto.

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    • #17
      Besides MSLE has that mind control machine sitting a top the CN Tower. I realize most of that bandwidth is used for the Leafs, but if things go sour I'm sure they can make room for the Raps.

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      • #18
        I would not so much be asking the question of whether Toronto will continue to exist, but what are the chances of Vancouver once again receiving a franchise. I think to grow th e brand to the levels that the NBA would want, they almost have to expand further...or am I crazy?!

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        • #19
          You can also flip it and look at it from the perspective of the league. They're all about strengthening their global brand.

          Stern's admitted that Vancouver leaving was the event he regretted most during his stay as commish.

          There've already been rumblings about a possible European expansion.

          The Raps moving to a US city would be a step backwards in the NBA's end-game of world domination.
          "Stop eating your sushi."
          "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
          "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
          - Jack Armstrong

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          • #20
            Just for scale, there are only three markets in Canada/USA that are significantly bigger than Toronto, these are NYC, LA and Chicago. Toronto about the same size as Dallas, Houston and Miami and bigger than Boston, Washington, San Francisco/Oakland, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Phoenix, Detroit.

            And if "Canada" can be the raptors market, as Tim Leiweke dreams, that would be the single biggest market by a long shot.

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            • #21
              Fanchie wrote: View Post
              Charlotte : 770,000 people
              Toronto : 2.8M people

              There ends the comparison.
              Let me put it this way. Population does not necessary mean market for an NBA team. Its a population that is interested and can be interested into NBA. That is why, right now, Charlotte is better NBA market than for example London, England.

              The only reason why I spoke of Charlotte is because they had by far the best NBA attendance and were one of the best markets in the NBA, only to fell apart dramatically in 4 years.

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              • #22
                The GTA is about 4 million strong. The Raps are a very profitable team really, in terms of market size, large enough to be one of the 5 teams most consulted and having most say during the CBA talks. There is absolutely no worry about the actual team leaving, I just worry about when we will have some actual Basketball to watch.

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                • #23
                  they were owned and driven by the gate, the raps aren't.

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                  • #24
                    I'll go ahead and call "deliberate trolling" on this thread. Ridiculous.
                    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                    • #25
                      JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                      Stern's admitted that Vancouver leaving was the event he regretted most during his stay as commish.
                      Actually I believe in the context of his whole reply that Stern's big regret was putting a team in Vancouver in the first place. The NBA, for reasons that I still don't understand, did so much to dissuade Canadian cities from getting a team and did even more to make sure they didn't prosper. The original franchise cost for Vancouver and Toronto was something like 3 or 5 times what it was for Charlotte (the 2nd time around), we had restrictions against us for drafts for the first 3 years that didn't allow us to get a 1st pick overall, I think even the expansion draft was skewed to screw us over but I may be making that one up.

                      Outside of some sort of grudge against Canadians for how we treat his boy Bettman I never understood why Stern was so anti-Canada succeeding in the NBA.

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                      • #26
                        The Raptors are not going anywhere! If you need reasons....please read the posts prior to this one.

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                        • #27
                          Letter N wrote: View Post
                          Actually I believe in the context of his whole reply that Stern's big regret was putting a team in Vancouver in the first place. The NBA, for reasons that I still don't understand, did so much to dissuade Canadian cities from getting a team and did even more to make sure they didn't prosper. The original franchise cost for Vancouver and Toronto was something like 3 or 5 times what it was for Charlotte (the 2nd time around), we had restrictions against us for drafts for the first 3 years that didn't allow us to get a 1st pick overall, I think even the expansion draft was skewed to screw us over but I may be making that one up.
                          Expanding NBA to Canada was great marketing move for the NBA, which is the main reason I believe Raptors will never move. And if your expanding 27 team league to bordering country, it only makes sense to expand it by two (more than one) team. One being East and the other being on the West coast. With Grizzlies bailing out of Vancouver after 6 seasons it only makes sense to be sorry they were put there in the first place. However, I think that Stern was sorry for getting Grizzlies relocate, which was blow for further expansion outside the States.

                          NBA team did cost Toronto and Vancouver more than it cost Charlotte or anyone else. I can buy that based on the fact that expending to Canada had its difficulties. Draft restrictions were unfair and can not be defended. From what I know, other owners demanded that because they did not want Duncan or Iverson playing in Canada. The only restriction during expansion draft is that we were forced to pick players we did not want, and the other teams have taken advantage of that. I wrought an interesting peace about it...
                          http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...xpansion-Draft

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                          • #28
                            This dude spelt business "busyness" that's when I stopped reading. Oh it got worse.. just saw "wrought" in place of wrote..*sigh*

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                            • #29
                              C-Low wrote: View Post
                              This dude spelt business "busyness" that's when I stopped reading. Oh it got worse.. just saw "wrought" in place of wrote..*sigh*
                              It's Karl Marx, man. He's ESL. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
                              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                              • #30
                                Have to think Leiweke's NBA head office connections will keep them in TO for his tenure. In addition to high season ticket renewals, attendance, fan base and potential fan base. Will be interesting to see how Adam Silver continues on David Stern's efforts to globalize the game, that will have some impact on Canada's team.

                                Can't see it happening -- too big a market.

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