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Thread: Zach Harper CBSSports.com Raptors Off-Season Grade

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Rookie GoldenBaller's Avatar
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    ESPN is strictly 'merica.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    I'm loving what I'm hearing about Dwight Buycks. I think he should be the back up point guard as well but my worry is with Dwane Casey. He has a thing for guys with experience even if they aren't good players. So my worry is even if Dwight is clearly outperforming Augustin he will still play D.J. over Dwight and I don't think that's fair. There is nothing Augustin does better than Buycks and Augustin is a terrible defender, which is what we are suppose to be about this year, so I don't see what sense it makes to play him over Dwight.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote GLF wrote: View Post
    I'm loving what I'm hearing about Dwight Buycks. I think he should be the back up point guard as well but my worry is with Dwane Casey. He has a thing for guys with experience even if they aren't good players. So my worry is even if Dwight is clearly outperforming Augustin he will still play D.J. over Dwight and I don't think that's fair. There is nothing Augustin does better than Buycks and Augustin is a terrible defender, which is what we are suppose to be about this year, so I don't see what sense it makes to play him over Dwight.
    Thier is no basis. All that Buycks has proven is that he can dominate over inferior opponents. He really only proved that he can score not really lead a team. Didn't prove that he can play D either. Has better tools but, that's all.

  5. #25
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    retarded and unprofessional podcast

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    Quote drunkmunky wrote: View Post
    retarded and unprofessional podcast
    no kidding! I couldn't get quite all the way through it, but am scratching my head why I even continued any further than when the one guy needed a reminder of what team was the topic.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    I can't say everyone because I honestly don't know, but I find it interesting that people say Buycks is already better than Augustin when 90% of people haven't ever seen him play outside of summer league and highlight clips on YouTube. If we had signed Augustin last season, everyone would have been ecstatic at his cost. He had one bad season and suddenly he's shittier than a PG who know one had heard of before we signed him. Chances are Augustin will be primary backup and the reason won't be experience. It'll be talent and I doubt(though could be wrong) that Buycks is more talented. If he was good enough to be a primary backup he would've been in the league long ago. One bad season for Augustin doesn't define his whole career. And sure he isn't the greatest defender but overall I'd take him over Buycks.

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  10. #28
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Harper's the first writer I've seen who actually thinks Buycks has a legit shot at usurping Augustin as the primary backup. Interesting.
    You act as if Augustin already has the backup job... which would be tragic

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    Perhaps Toronto should go for Jonny Flynn at point guard. He definitely has talent, and it looks like Quentin Richardson's spot will be open.

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...ck-jonny-flynn

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    I hope you're right. I just remember seeing Augustin in the eastern conference finals and his D was atrocious. Like it was soooo bad. Anytime he came into the game Indiana's D went to shit. I can't believe with Dwight's speed, athleticism and height he could be any worse that D.J. Augustin is almost Jose bad defensively from the eye test. Maybe advanced stats would say otherwise but I highly doubt that.
    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Thier is no basis. All that Buycks has proven is that he can dominate over inferior opponents. He really only proved that he can score not really lead a team. Didn't prove that he can play D either. Has better tools but, that's all.

  13. #31
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    Btw would anyone mind taking a look at Augustin's defensive stats and see if he is as bad as I think he is. I'm not quite sure where you have to go to find those advanced stats. Also I don't quite understand how you read it so you can tell if the player is above average or below.

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    Quote GLF wrote: View Post
    I'm not quite sure where you have to go to find those advanced stats.
    His defensive rating, 0.63, ranks almost at the bottom of the league. See

    http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats....&gp=40&mins=10

    By comparison, Lowry's rating was 2.2. near the top of the league, just ahead of Russell Westbrook and just behind Jrue Holiday.

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    Quote GoldenBaller wrote: View Post
    ESPN is strictly 'merica.
    Yeah sure but more importantly ESPN is Disney, and ESPN is Entertainment, then Sports, whatever the P stands for Network.

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    Quote caccia wrote: View Post
    His defensive rating, 0.63, ranks almost at the bottom of the league. See

    http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats....&gp=40&mins=10

    By comparison, Lowry's rating was 2.2. near the top of the league, just ahead of Russell Westbrook and just behind Jrue Holiday.
    See this is my worry. He is even worse than Jose defensively and Jose was horrendous. And then he is no where close to as good as Jose offensively. I know Buycks hasn't proven anything but I think he definitely won't be worse than that. John Lucas's bad defense was a big part of why our bench was horrendous after Jose left. Along with his inability to run a team but still. I think Augustin's atrocious defense will hurt us A LOT, manly because he does nothing else well.

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    Quote caccia wrote: View Post
    His defensive rating, 0.63, ranks almost at the bottom of the league. See

    http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats....&gp=40&mins=10

    By comparison, Lowry's rating was 2.2. near the top of the league, just ahead of Russell Westbrook and just behind Jrue Holiday.
    That's not defensive rating. That's just blocks+steals+charges taken per game. I'm not gonna praise Augustin's defense here, but you can't compare per-game numbers between starters and backups--of course the starters' numbers will be bigger; they play more than double the minutes. And on top of that, BLK+STL+CHG is a stupid way to measure defense. It tells you who gambles. Indy's defense requires the PG to stay home and not go for steals; of course his steal numbers are gonna be low. It also asks perimeter defenders to funnel drives into help D, which you do by shading to one side rather than being straight-up in front where you could potentially take a charge. (And as for blocks, well, he's short. Of course he ain't getting blocks.)

    Or, if you prefer argument by example: Bruce Bowen would have ranked right near the bottom of the league every year in BLK+STL+CHG, and he was a consistent all-NBA defender. George Hill is pretty well regarded as a defender, but by BLK+STL+CHG he's below average.

    Augustin's defensive rating last season was actually 104, a little worse than starter George Hill's 102. He averaged 0.039 defensive win shares per 48, which is a bit below the average of 0.050, but not horrible.

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    Quote tkfu wrote: View Post
    That's not defensive rating. That's just blocks+steals+charges taken per game. I'm not gonna praise Augustin's defense here, but you can't compare per-game numbers between starters and backups--of course the starters' numbers will be bigger; they play more than double the minutes. And on top of that, BLK+STL+CHG is a stupid way to measure defense. It tells you who gambles. Indy's defense requires the PG to stay home and not go for steals; of course his steal numbers are gonna be low. It also asks perimeter defenders to funnel drives into help D, which you do by shading to one side rather than being straight-up in front where you could potentially take a charge. (And as for blocks, well, he's short. Of course he ain't getting blocks.)

    Or, if you prefer argument by example: Bruce Bowen would have ranked right near the bottom of the league every year in BLK+STL+CHG, and he was a consistent all-NBA defender. George Hill is pretty well regarded as a defender, but by BLK+STL+CHG he's below average.

    Augustin's defensive rating last season was actually 104, a little worse than starter George Hill's 102. He averaged 0.039 defensive win shares per 48, which is a bit below the average of 0.050, but not horrible.
    Ohhhh Okay. You're right. Well it's nice to know that he isn't a horrible defender. I didn't watch him all season so I can't speak on that but I just remember him being so bad in the eastern conference finals against Miami. Maybe it was just that series. Would you mind telling me how his defense ranks against Jose and John Lucas if you don't mind? Also is he considered an average defender from the stats you showed or is he considered a little below average?

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    Quote GLF wrote: View Post
    Would you mind telling me how his defense ranks against Jose and John Lucas if you don't mind? Also is he considered an average defender from the stats you showed or is he considered a little below average?
    I don't think one should trust too much in any of the stats for defense in a vacuum, in terms of comparing between different teams and contexts. DRtg suffers from concurrency issues and DWS is a weird hybrid of stat-based and on-off that can give you some skewed results. I did watch the Pacers a fair bit on league pass last season, though, and I found Augustin to be acceptable on D--not great, not terrible. Certainly better than Jose in terms of keeping his guy in front of him, and at least a little bit better than JL3 at not being a midget. He gives solid effort, and has enough physical tools to hold his own against backups. He definitely looked awful against Miami, but Miami makes a lot of slightly-above-replacement-level players look like absolute scrubs.

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    Quote tkfu wrote: View Post
    That's not defensive rating. That's just blocks+steals+charges taken per game.
    You're right, thanks. I was going to point out that in the table I referenced, the totals were per game, not per 40 minutes, where Augustin ranks a bit higher. I agree that the defensive rating is contingent on the system played, but nevertheless his rating was second worse on the Pacers, just ahead of a guy who played on two ten-day contracts. He was also next-to-last in the playoffs.

    Augustin often loses his man because he does not fight through screens well. He got better at it as the season wore on, though. He is also not very good at defending the three, due to his height.

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    Quote caccia wrote: View Post
    His defensive rating, 0.63, ranks almost at the bottom of the league. See

    http://www.hoopdata.com/defrebstats....&gp=40&mins=10

    By comparison, Lowry's rating was 2.2. near the top of the league, just ahead of Russell Westbrook and just behind Jrue Holiday.
    Just behind Leandro Barbosa, Chauncey Billups, Udonis Haslem, Kendal Marshal and Matt Bonner. There are 73 guys behind him, so he is in the bottom 13%. Lowry is ranked behind 53 guys so he is in the top 11%. So there is quite a gap between these guys, if maybe not quite the one you are implying.

    Interestingly enough, Rudy Gay is ranked twice, once with Mem and once with Tor. He played better defence in Toronto, coming in at #45 out of 483 rankings.

    Jose comes in at #335 for TO, but he improved to #190 for Detroit.

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    Getting rid of Bargnani without taking back something equally cumbersome gets you at least a B+. The writer was a bit generous, but pretty insightful in valuing how important a 'subtraction move' could be for this franchise. Props to him.

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