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Thread: Syrian war

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Well in my opinion, if you want all the facts and not a filtered, inaccurate account, you have to go to place like Infowars or Drudge Report.

    You're not getting credible reporting any more on TV and there seems to be little accountability when they misinform us.



    Right because Iraq and Libya are so much better because of America's love bombings.

    What happened to diplomacy? It's pretty bad when Russia seems to be the voice of reason. I really think if they storm in there its the signal of WW3. This time everybody has nukes so do the math, it equals something downright terrifying.
    Problem was that there were pretty much no facts, when it came to the "nuclear" bomb. Reminded me US statements regarding chemical attack.
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  2. #62
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Right because Iraq and Libya are so much better because of America's love bombings.

    What happened to diplomacy? It's pretty bad when Russia seems to be the voice of reason. I really think if they storm in there its the signal of WW3. This time everybody has nukes so do the math, it equals something downright terrifying.
    But once again, you seem to only be talking about the Americans involvement, when I'm speaking about the United Nations, NATO, EU etc.

    I'd say Iraq IS better off since the ousting of Sadam; and while Libya is still waay too early to tell, many including myself, would argue that Libya is also better off since the ousting of Gaddafi. And Libya was largely a NATO led offensive, with the backing of the United Nations.

    And once again, Russia most certainly has its own agenda, and ulterior motives, in maintaining the Assad regime in Syria. It has Military bases in Syria, it is one of its main Oil partners, trades MASSIVE amounts of arms with them, etc.

    In terms of 'storming in', I'm not sure that's anyone's intention, nor is that what anyone is doing. Everyone seems to be taking a rational, political approach, and weighing all the options and weighing all the evidence. Once again though, this is not just the US contemplating action against Assad. But it is only Russia who is opposing it. For reasons I outlined above.
    Last edited by Joey; Mon Sep 9th, 2013 at 07:08 PM.
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  3. #63
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Another interesting stat in comparing Syria to the African Conflicts; since just 2011, well over 100,000 Syrians have been killed (Source)
    Where as in Africa in the 2000's, a whole decade, 100,000-160,000 people were killed in sub-Saharan Africa. (Source)

    So I'm not sure you can really compare the two. Syria is REALLY bad. Like Historically bad.
    To put it in perspective, during the whole of Apartheid in South Africa (1948 to 1989) "only" 7,000 Black South Africans were killed, according to the Human Rights Commission.
    Last edited by Joey; Mon Sep 9th, 2013 at 11:18 PM.
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  4. #64
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Well in my opinion, if you want all the facts and not a filtered, inaccurate account, you have to go to place like Infowars or Drudge Report.
    Hey Apollo, you dont strike me as the type of person to follow Alex Jones' interpretation of anything. Were you being sarcastic when you insinuated that Infowars lacks bias facts?
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  5. #65
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Another interesting stat in comparing Syria to the African Conflicts; since just 2011, well over 100,000 Syrians have been killed (Source)
    Where as in Africa in the 2000's, a whole decade, 100,000-160,000 people were killed in sub-Saharan Africa. (Source)

    So I'm not sure you can really compare the two. Syria is REALLY bad. Like Historically bad.
    To put it in perspective, during the whole of Apartheid in South Africa (1948 to 1989) "only" 7,000 Black South Africans were killed, according to the Human Rights Commission.
    i would actually feel much better going into africa and trying to put a stop to creating child heroin addicts and roaming bands of marauders that regularly give the choice of foot or hand before they amputate, not to mention the rape gangs.

    not one thing we have ever done in the middle east has ever amounted to anything. those people will never stop fighting. they live in the 3rd century. we have never tried to fix africa.

    i also think the death tolls in africa don't account for all of the amputations which might as well be a murder.

    i also don't think iraq is better off then before. their country was left a shambles with now multiple roving bands of heavily armed, unconscionable people, willing to bomb, kill beat anyone different from themselves. i also don't think helping iraq or her peoples was ever a concern for any of the parties that entered that war. one of my main memories of that time was how upset the rest of the world, that refused to attack and condemned the attacks, got when bush told them they wont be considered for rebuilding contracts.


    today i read that russia is going to be a bit stricter with syria, bullshit, and that syria welcomes the international aid and hopes the fighting ends soon, bullshit. hopefully resolutions and sanctions can help stabilize the situation.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Another interesting stat in comparing Syria to the African Conflicts; since just 2011, well over 100,000 Syrians have been killed (Source)
    Where as in Africa in the 2000's, a whole decade, 100,000-160,000 people were killed in sub-Saharan Africa. (Source)

    So I'm not sure you can really compare the two. Syria is REALLY bad. Like Historically bad.
    To put it in perspective, during the whole of Apartheid in South Africa (1948 to 1989) "only" 7,000 Black South Africans were killed, according to the Human Rights Commission.
    Ok listen man, are you seriously posting that since 1999, only 120K Africans have been killed in the Genocide that has taken place there?

    I mean in Darfur alone almost 500K have been murdered in the last decade, hell, like 2-3 million people had to flee for their lives. Literally MILLIONS of people have been getting slaughtered in Africa for years, YEARS. This isn't a "which is worse" scenario, this is a "don't use the Syrain people as an excuse" discussion. Because Genocide has been widespead on this planet in our modern time, and the death tolls.... well sadly they are infinitely higher than you have posted above man. Just huge.
    Last edited by Superjudge; Tue Sep 10th, 2013 at 08:57 AM.

  7. #67
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Ok listen man, are you seriously posting that since 1999, only 120K Africans have been killed in the Genocide that has taken place there?

    I mean in Darfur alone almost 500K have been murdered in the last decade, hell, like 2-3 million people had to flee for their lives. Literally MILLIONS of people have been getting slaughtered in Africa for years, YEARS. This isn't a "which is worse" scenario, this is a "don't use the Syrain people as an excuse" discussion. Because Genocide has been widespead on this planet in our modern time, and the death tolls.... well sadly they are infinitely higher than you have posted above man. Just huge.
    No thats no at all what I'm saying actually.
    I'm fully aware of went on in Darfur. Sudan is not "Sub-Saharan Africa" though, which accounts for 90+% of the African Continent, and which is what I was referring to with the stats I provided. You never said Darfur above. You said Africa.
    Dafur is Darfur. Darfur is not Africa.
    Africa itself is actually doing quite well, in grand scheme of things.

    And I'm not sure you can say that international bodies didn't help Darfur.
    There has been a constant international presense in Darfur for nearly 10 years now.
    Last edited by Joey; Tue Sep 10th, 2013 at 11:10 AM.
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  8. #68
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Hey Apollo, you dont strike me as the type of person to follow Alex Jones' interpretation of anything. Were you being sarcastic when you insinuated that Infowars lacks bias facts?
    I don't follow anyone's interpretation of things, I follow my own. They may have their own bias, everyone does, but the backup they provide does not. That's the point. Most people are basing opinion on hearsay and statements backed by nothing they can see. Why should I believe Kerry or Cameron or any of these guys? Where's the proof in what they're saying? History indicates that a lot of these leaders jump to action without all the facts and then it turns out they were wrong.

  9. #69
    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    No thats no at all what I'm saying actually.
    I'm fully aware of went on in Darfur. Sudan is not "Sub-Saharan Africa" though, which accounts for 90+% of the African Continent, and which is what I was referring to with the stats I provided. You never said Darfur above. You said Africa.
    Dafur is Darfur. Darfur is not Africa.
    Africa itself is actually doing quite well, in grand scheme of things.

    And I'm not sure you can say that international bodies didn't help Darfur.
    There has been a constant international presense in Darfur for nearly 10 years now.
    Technicalities...haha

    I'm sure were all on the same page here anyhow.


  10. #70
    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I don't follow anyone's interpretation of things, I follow my own. They may have their own bias, everyone does, but the backup they provide does not. That's the point. Most people are basing opinion on hearsay and statements backed by nothing they can see. Why should I believe Kerry or Cameron or any of these guys? Where's the proof in what they're saying? History indicates that a lot of these leaders jump to action without all the facts and then it turns out they were wrong.
    I think most of us, who are discussing it here, basing everything on our own opinions and observations, have our own view. Those, who don't are either not interested or dont have what to say regarding this.
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  11. #71
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I didn't say you weren't, I just provided a direct answer to a direct question.

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I know I am the one responsible for making claims and it is my responsibility to back it up but all this is Googable.

    Who has the high incarceration rate in the world?
    USA

    Who has less than 5% of the world population but over 25% of the world's prisoners?
    USA

    Who is responsible for the following?
    1. Military Dumped 20 Million Gallons of Chemicals on Vietnam from 1962 – 1971
    Vietnam estimates that as a result of the decade-long chemical attack, 400,000 people were killed or maimed, 500,000 babies have been born with birth defects, and 2 million have suffered from cancer or other illnesses.

    2. Israel Attacked Palestinian Civilians with White Phosphorus in 2008 – 2009
    White phosphorus is a horrific incendiary chemical weapon that melts human flesh right down to the bone.

    In 2009, multiple human rights groups, including Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and International Red Cross reported that the Israeli government was attacking civilians in their own country with chemical weapons.

    The Israeli military denied the allegations at first, but eventually admitted they were true.

    3. Attacked Iraqi Civilians with White Phosphorus in 2004

    In 2004, journalists embedded with the U.S. military in Iraq began reporting the use of white phosphorus in Fallujah against Iraqi insurgents. First the military lied and said that it was only using white phosphorus to create smokescreens or illuminate targets. Then it admitted to using the volatile chemical as an incendiary weapon.

    4. Helped Saddam Hussein Massacre Iranians and Kurds with Chemical Weapons in 1988

    CIA records now prove that Washington knew Saddam Hussein was using chemical weapons (including sarin, nerve gas, and mustard gas) in the Iran-Iraq War, yet continued to pour intelligence into the hands of the Iraqi military, informing Hussein of Iranian troop movements while knowing that he would be using the information to launch chemical attacks.

    5. Army Tested Chemicals on Residents of Poor, Black St. Louis Neighborhoods in The 1950s

    In the early 1950s, the Army set up motorized blowers on top of residential high-rises in low-income, mostly black St. Louis neighborhoods, including areas where as much as 70% of the residents were children under 12. The government told residents that it was experimenting with a smokescreen to protect the city from Russian attacks, but it was actually pumping the air full of hundreds of pounds of finely powdered zinc cadmium sulfide.

    6. Police Fired Tear Gas at Occupy Protesters in 2011

    The savage violence of the police against Occupy protesters in 2011 was well documented, andincluded the use of tear gas and other chemical irritants. Tear gas is prohibited for use against enemy soldiers in battle by the Chemical Weapons Convention.

    7. Attacked Men, Women, and Children With Tear Gas in Waco in 1993

    At the infamous Waco siege of a peaceful community of Seventh Day Adventists, the FBI pumped tear gas into buildings knowing that women, children, and babies were inside. The tear gas was highly flammable and ignited, engulfing the buildings in flames and killing 49 men and women, and 27 children, including babies and toddlers.

    8. Military Littered Iraq with Toxic Depleted Uranium in 2003

    In Iraq, the U.S. military has littered the environment with thousands of tons of munitions made from depleted uranium, a toxic and radioactive nuclear waste product. As a result, more than half of babies born in Fallujah from 2007 – 2010 were born with birth defects. Some of these defects have never been seen before outside of textbooks with photos of babies born near nuclear tests in the Pacific.

    9. Military Killed Hundreds of Thousands of Japanese Civilians with Napalm from 1944 – 1945

    Napalm is a sticky and highly flammable gel which has been used as a weapon of terror by the U.S. military. In 1980, the UN declared the use of napalm on swaths of civilian population a war crime. That’s exactly what the U.S. military did in World War II, dropping enough napalm in one bombing raid on Tokyo to burn 100,000 people to death, injure a million more, and leave a million without homes in the single deadliest air raid of World War II.

    10. Government Dropped Nuclear Bombs on Two Japanese Cities in 1945
    Answer: USA (some is long ago, some is very recent, but the US is not one to wag the finger of moral accountability when it comes to use of chemical weapons).


    Who have been continuously moving the goal lines on the dispute in Syria?
    USA

    Who has a debt ceiling that is coming up?
    USA
    Who would easily get this raised again with a war?
    USA
    Despite a war the population overwhelmingly does not support?
    USA
    Despite a population in opposition to raising the debt limit with 70% saying no?
    USA

    Look carefully in to the Libya story: It was a coverup. Who was about to be busted for running armed weapons to rebels/terrorists?
    USA (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...tack/?page=all) I feel very confident in the next 10 years the Iran-Contra fiasco will pale in comparison to what is currently going on in the world.

    Who has a president, congress, and intelligence agency that is currently guilty of treason?
    USA
    Al-Qaeda is a declared enemy of the USA. The USA, through Syrian rebels which are also backed by Al-Qaeda, is actually supplying arms, weapons, resources, and money to their enemies - of course all through illegal channels and through organizations like the CIA.

    Who has a country with media only reporting what the WhiteHouse wants aired?
    USA - have any of you heard about the rebels in Syria who are beheading, dismembering, and raping whole Christian villages? I don't think Assad is a nice guy but the people who are going to replace him are hardcore Islamic radicals who will only turn around and use the very weapons that are being provided to them by the USA against the USA. Sounds kind of like Iraq, no?

    Who has a country that is ignoring the elections and the implications they can have in Iran for the sake of a phony war?
    USA - Iran just elected in a land slide a moderate president from a population that wants to reconnect with the Western world. A war with Syria will only give the hardliners the fuel they need to retake control. It is an absolute crying shame the opportunity being wasted here. Hopefully Iranian president upcoming trip to the UN can shed light and publicity on this.

    Syria is not about freeing the people... c'mon that is bullshit. Africa - enough said.

    This is all about a bloody pipeline that the Saudi's want to build through to Turkey. To build it, it must go through Syria. Syria has said NO. They said NO because they are allies with Russia who has Europe by the balls when it comes to natural gas. Russia currently have a monopoly. The US government is infringing on the right of a sovereign state to impose their will and are attempting to justify it in any way possible. They started talking about chemical weapons but after the intervention of Russia and the agreement to give up all chemical weapons to international control, the US (Kerry) said, "No, sorry, this is all about regime change afterall." Human rights my ass.


    The US talks a good game about freedom and liberties but it has become nothing but a George Orwell book (1984 or Animal Farm come immediately to mind). They preach liberties and freedom yet any honest read through a non-US publication will show the truths behind Snowden/NSA. Snowden highlighted the incredible perjury and corruption in US intelligence/government. He was painted as a traitor and he foretold all of this. He is a true hero.

    The NSA is not about terrorists. You mean to tell me they couldn't catch the Boston bombers before it happened with their internet searches, cell phone use, and warning from Russia about them before it even happened? It is about tracking down money/taxes. The US is bankrupt (financially and morally) and to keep the pigs in power they are turning on their fellow citizens.

    Anyways, I'll end on a Benjamin Franklin quote:
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Fri Sep 13th, 2013 at 05:55 PM.
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  13. #73
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    To the list of skeptics who question the need for air strikes against Syria, add an another unlikely group — many U.S. troops.

    “I haven’t heard one single person be supportive of it,” said an Army staff sergeant at Fort Hood who asked not to be identified by name.

    A Military Times survey of more than 750 active-duty troops this week found service members oppose military action in Syria by a margin of about three to one.

    http://www.militarytimes.com/interac...-by-3-1-margin
    No comment needed.
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  14. #74
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Most of the Syrian “rebels” are Al Qaeda. As NBC News reports, Al Qaeda is gaining more and more power among the rebels.

    And the U.S., Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Israel have been backing these guys for years. Indeed, we’ve long known that most of the weapons we’re shipping to Syria are ending up in the hands of Al Qaeda. And they apparently have chemical weapons.

    Congressman Amish points out that the U.S. is breaking the law by aiding and abetting a designated terrorist group.

    Indeed, Obama’s own top lawyers warned him that arming the rebels would be illegal.

    Ironically, Obama has just renewed the Declaration of a State of Emergency for America first started by Bush in September 2001. That declaration of emergency is supposed to be about fighting – you know – Al Qaeda.

    But the U.S. has long wanted regime change in Syria … and long backed the most violent terrorists in the world for geopolitical reasons.
    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/...-save-him.html





    Let’s put this in context. Most of the Syrian “rebels” are Al Qaeda. The U.S. government has designated these guys as terrorists.

    Things are getting better, not worse: Al Qaeda is gaining more and more power among the rebels.

    And the U.S., Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Israel have been backing these guys for years. Indeed, we’ve long known that most of the weapons we’re shipping to Syria are ending up in the hands of Al Qaeda. And they apparently have chemical weapons.

    We’re arming the same guys who are threatening to blow us up.

    This is even stupider than creating Al Qaeda in the first place to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. At least then, they didn’t threaten America while we were arming them.
    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/...n-america.html
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  15. #75
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Russia opposes it because they are literally Syria's biggest ally.

    And again, this isn't really about the threat to civilians outside of Syria.. this is about liberating the people of Syria.
    Just like Libya. Only Libya wasn't nearly the Human Rights Atrocity that Syria is.
    I hope that Syria is not given the same liberation that has been given to Libya:

    Yet now Libya has almost entirely stopped producing oil as the government loses control of much of the country to militia fighters.
    As world attention focused on the coup in Egypt and the poison gas attack in Syria over the past two months, Libya has plunged unnoticed into its worst political and economic crisis since the defeat of Gaddafi two years ago. Government authority is disintegrating in all parts of the country putting in doubt claims by American, British and French politicians that Nato’s military action in Libya in 2011 was an outstanding example of a successful foreign military intervention which should be repeated in Syria.
    In an escalating crisis little regarded hitherto outside the oil markets, output of Libya’s prized high-quality crude oil has plunged from 1.4 million barrels a day earlier this year to just 160,000 barrels a day now.
    Libyans are increasingly at the mercy of militias which act outside the law. Popular protests against militiamen have been met with gunfire; 31 demonstrators were shot dead and many others wounded as they protested outside the barracks of “the Libyan Shield Brigade” in the eastern capital Benghazi in June.
    Though the Nato intervention against Gaddafi was justified as a humanitarian response to the threat that Gaddafi’s tanks would slaughter dissidents in Benghazi, the international community has ignored the escalating violence. The foreign media, which once filled the hotels of Benghazi and Tripoli, have likewise paid little attention to the near collapse of the central government.
    One of the many failings of the post-Gaddafi government is its inability to revive the moribund economy. Libya is wholly dependent on its oil and gas revenues and without these may not be able to pay its civil servants. Sliman Qajam, a member of the parliamentary energy committee, told Bloomberg that “the government is running on its reserves. If the situation doesn’t improve, it won’t be able to pay salaries by the end of the year”.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...n-8797041.html


    I'm not saying Gaddafi or Assad are right and I'm not advocating for them.

    What I am advocating for is a respect of sovereignty by the US.

    I've yet to see where US involvement anywhere in the middle east has actually helped with the exception of Kuwait. However in Kuwait they were INVADED by another country, Iraq, who were less than 10 years earlier backed by the US. All Kuwait was was the US cleaning up their own mess.

    There are always alterior motives behind the claims of human rights. Syria is all about a pipeline.
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  16. #76
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default US military document: Rebels had sarin gas for attack in Syria

    The classified document obtained by WND, confirms that poison gas was confiscated earlier this year from members of the al-Nusra Front, a militant group that has been responsible for some of the most gruesome terrorist attacks directed at both Syrian soldiers and civilian population.

    The National Ground Intelligence Center report states that al-Qaeda in Iraq produced the sarin gas and then shipped it to the al-Nusra Front in Syria.

    Turkish anti-terror police seized a two-kilogram cylinder of sarin gas from members of the notorious terrorist group near the Syrian border.

    While the Obama administration insists that militant groups fighting against the Syrian government lack the capability to produce poison gas or to carry out gas attacks, the new military document reveals that sarin gas obtained by the al-Nusra Front could have been used in an attack on civilians and military soldiers in Aleppo last March.
    PressTV

  17. #77
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    While the Obama administration insists that militant groups fighting against the Syrian government lack the capability to produce poison gas or to carry out gas attacks, the new military document reveals that sarin gas obtained by the al-Nusra Front could have been used in an attack on civilians and military soldiers in Aleppo last March.

    The US has also unequivocally accused the government of President Bashar al-Assad of launching a deadly chemical attack near Damascus on August 21, and has raised the specter of military action against the Arab country.
    At what point is Obama impeached? Seriously.

    Everything he or his administration comes out and publicly says is refuted within 3 weeks and proven to be a sign of ignorance at best or blatant lies at worst.
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  18. #78
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    This is why I prefer "the blogs" or European news outlets:

    "I think the media's becoming the story, let's face it," Grenell said. "CBS News President David Rhodes and ABC News President Ben Sherwood, both of them have siblings that not only work at the White House, that not only work for President Obama, but they work at the (National Security Council) on foreign policy issues directly related to Benghazi. Let's call a spade a spade."

    Rhodes' brother, Ben, is President Barack Obama's deputy national security adviser for strategic communication, and Sherwood's sister, Dr. Elizabeth Sherwood-Randall, is Obama's special assistant, Newsbusters reports.

    Additionally, CNN deputy bureau chief Virginia Moseley is married to Hillary Clinton’s deputy, Tom Nides, Grenell noted. "It is time for the media to start asking questions why are they not covering this. It's a family matter for some of them."

    Nides is deputy secretary of state for management and resources.

    ABC reported Friday that Rhodes, brother of the CBS News president, was key to revising the talking points that were issued after the attack and are under scrutiny from a House subcommittee.

    CBS News reporter Sharyl Attkisson has come under fire from her own employer for allegedly "wading dangerously close to advocacy on" Benghazi."

    Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Net...#ixzz2ezGzeYEc
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  19. #79
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Yeah, unfortunately most mainstream news is merely propaganda platforms. This is why places like Drudge Report has gain massive popularity, and I mean massive as in putting mainstream news site traffic to shame on an embarrassing level.

    The more they ignore important stories that fly against the agenda and the more disinformation they release the more they lose control over the masses because people may be slow to get moving but they're not dumb.

    The public backlash they're getting down south is a testament to people awaken to the reality of things on this side of the ocean.

  20. #80
    Raptors Republic Veteran rocwell's Avatar
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    "SYRIA CRISIS:US says UN report shows only Syrian government could have carried out chemical weapons attack in Damascus" - BBC reports.

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