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Thread: Hansbrough Will Surprise You

  1. #41
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    Quote Indiana65 wrote: View Post
    I watched every Pacer game last year. I don't see Hansbrough as a dirty player. What he is is a little awkward like a lot of big men, super agressive, and a guy who will fight for the ball (with passion) and for position. Add all of this together and yes it can appear he is dirty. What he is not is an intentionally dirty player. No way.

    I have not seen Amir Johnson play except against the Pacers and he did not make enough of an impression on me for me to remember him. That means nothing of course and I have read many good things about him on the forum. I am in his corner but I can guarantee you that if you give Hansbrough 20 to 25 minutes a night you are going to get more than 10 points a game out of him. I say that based on history. I also think it is safe to say you will get an equal amount of rebounds from him as you get from Amir. The two of them ought to make a good team at the power forward position. I think you will now have 2 Amir's in uniform or 2 Tyler's however you want to look at it.

    Now I have a question. Does anyone know if League Pass will show the preseason games? I have not yet signed up.
    The thing Amir has up on Hansbrough is that there's no way Tyler is as good a defender as him. Not one-on-one against either PFs or Cs, and not as an anchor for a team's D. Amir doesn't wow you with stats (especially basic ones), because he's a glue guy who does his job very well. And he had by far the biggest impact on the team's D when on the floor out of all guys on the roster.

    Now I don't know who Casey will start, but I'd prefer Amir's strong D and versatility there on the starting unit, and Tyler's energy and how that can help the team off the bench. I think in the end, they will both be getting 25-30 minutes so it's on Casey to utilize the rotation properly to maximize both. So both should be able to thrive on the same team without taking anything away from each other.

    I also think Tyler would get more opportunities on the 2nd unit, as he does have a better offensive game (with the ball in his hands) than Amir, and there just won't be any touches left with JV, Rudy, DeMar and Kyle on the starting unit. I would also always want one of him or JV on the floor if possible, so I'd stagger their minutes (harder to do if they start together) as they are the best post threats and will thus help open things up for the wings.

  2. #42
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    You may be right but you might want to look at this first from Bleacherreport on the best defensive power forwards in the league: http://tinyurl.com/mt78lr6

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    Quote Indiana65 wrote: View Post
    You may be right but you might want to look at this first from Bleacherreport on the best defensive power forwards in the league: http://tinyurl.com/mt78lr6
    Wow. Thanks for sharing that. That's really good to know about Tyler. What I find funny is a lot of people hate on Demar's defense but he is actually ranked higher at his position than Amir. And we weren't a good defensive team last year so no one can say it's because he was on a good defensive team and that's why he's ranked slightly above average. But I do understand that he guards the teams worse offensive player and Amir guards the better offensive big man. Maybe that's why but I still think we might be hating on Demar a little too much in terms of his defense. He definitely needs to improve it though.

  4. #44
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    Quote Indiana65 wrote: View Post
    You may be right but you might want to look at this first from Bleacherreport on the best defensive power forwards in the league: http://tinyurl.com/mt78lr6
    I was ready to dismiss that article, seeing as its BleacherReport, but thats actually probably their most in-depth analysis they've EVER done. Lol Great article. Nice find!
    "That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson

  5. #45
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    And then they go and put Lamar Odom as the Second Best Defensive PF in the League ... Gosh darnit BleacherReport.. you just can't help it, can you?! Haha
    "That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson

  6. #46
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    It's Bleacher Report. It's always awful. David Lee is probably one of the worst defensive PFs in the league and they have him at 10. If you watch him play, he's just dreadful. He makes Bargnani look like Bill Russell. Kevin Love is also pretty bad as he easily gets caught flatfooted. Zach Randolph is really not that good. Neither is Nene anymore. Some of the choices make sense...Some of them have no business being htere at all.

    I don't think Tyler's a bad defensive player, but I do think Amir is an all around better defender. Tyler can defend PFs in the post, and is not horribly slow by any means so he's a decent pick'n'roll defender. I don't think he's quite as quick as Amir though, and he's not as long, making it hard for him to guard Cs or be an anchor in the middle for the team's D. Given Jonas will still be adjusting this year, I see it as only natural to put the more versatile and better team defender beside him to start games so that the team's D is as good as possible. And again, I also think Tyler will benefit offensively from coming off the bench.

  7. #47
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I don't think Tyler's a bad defensive player, but I do think Amir is an all around better defender.
    If you run a comparison on Synergy, Tyler's defensive ranking is #14 among all players in the league, Amir comes in at #214. The reason is that teams had a very low shooting percentage when Hansbrough was involved. On post-ups, which were 27.6% of the plays, teams shot only 30%, while turning it over 11.3% of the time. Johnson was posted up 31% of the time, but teams shot 41.3%, with a comparable 11.9% turnover rate.

    http://www.mysynergysports.com/

    Now, I am not going to argue that Hansbrough is a top defender in the NBA, but he is a very good one, whereas Johnson is merely average. Last season, Johnson had a big advantage on offense, with a true shooting percentage of 59.7% versus an average of 52.6% for Hansbrough. Johnson ranks 56 in offense, versus a middling 245 for Hansbrough.

    It will be fun watching Toronto and seeing both these guys, who are both quality players.

  8. #48
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    Quote caccia wrote: View Post
    If you run a comparison on Synergy, Tyler's defensive ranking is #14 among all players in the league, Amir comes in at #214. The reason is that teams had a very low shooting percentage when Hansbrough was involved. On post-ups, which were 27.6% of the plays, teams shot only 30%, while turning it over 11.3% of the time. Johnson was posted up 31% of the time, but teams shot 41.3%, with a comparable 11.9% turnover rate.

    http://www.mysynergysports.com/

    Now, I am not going to argue that Hansbrough is a top defender in the NBA, but he is a very good one, whereas Johnson is merely average. Last season, Johnson had a big advantage on offense, with a true shooting percentage of 59.7% versus an average of 52.6% for Hansbrough. Johnson ranks 56 in offense, versus a middling 245 for Hansbrough.

    It will be fun watching Toronto and seeing both these guys, who are both quality players.
    Yes, but metrics to measure D are very poorly developed because you can't truly isolate a player's impact on that end. There are team/usage aspects which seriously skew what the data means. Tyler was on the 2nd unit and played less minutes than Amir, meaning he often faced worse competition in the post and for less time (energy is a huge factor on D, which is very exhausting). And he was on a better defensive team. How does that affect a post-up you ask, which is pretty isolated? No play in basketball is isolated. If your teammates are better at cheating off their men to back you up and clog up potential driving lanes , it very heavily impacts how the opponent will try to score on a post-up. This as opposed to Amir, where basically no one ever had his back, especially at the times when Bargs was on the floor. The team you're on affects D way more than it affects O, at least in terms of measures.

    And offense is also skewed by stats. It's very good at measuring what a guy does well, but it doesn't do justice to the importance of role and how a guy is used situationally. Amir is a limited offensive player who's worked really hard to make sure he's pretty damn good at the limited things he can do. Tyler could still use some improvements in efficiency, but he brings a different dimension where he can be used in more situations. I mean, you really don't want Amir shooting except open jumpers and as the roll man on the p'n'r. I still cringe every time he puts the ball on the floor to post up or drive. But the fact that Tyler's a bit better with the ball in his hands, and also at being strong to establish low position means the offense has more options, not just through him, but also in how it can create spacing in general. And I didn't even mention yet the impact running plays with Jose/Kyle as your PG instead of DJ Augustin will have on your scoring game.

    In the end the measures are funny, because I'd suggest they're reflective of a common issue on both ends. Amir is more efficient on O, but it's because he generally tries to do (or is asked to do) less things. This doesn't make him a better offensive player, it makes him more efficient. And similarly on D, one reason Tyler measures out better because he's not asked to do as much. He rarely is asked to guard an obvious mismatch in the post like taking a bigger/longer player, since they had Hibbert and Mahinmi to man the C spot. Amir was frequently used as the primary C for stretches because of injuries or foul trouble. That'll make your post D look a lot worse than it actually is. And he often did a fairly good job despite any mismatch. I doubt Tyler would have had as much success.

    Anyway, this can be beaten around a lot, but I'd still say that Amir is a better defensive player all things considered, and that Tyler is a better offensive player, even if stats might suggest the opposite.

  9. #49
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    Quote OldSchool wrote: View Post


    Even coach Vogel, who had a good view of it all, immediately stood up pointed out Hansbrough and benched him 3 seconds later (really respect coach Vogel for that btw, benching a player for dirty plays even if its his own player)
    You decide.
    I think Tyler was upset at Jonas for running at him and pushing him away, so he grabbed Jonas' arm and said get off me.
    -"You canít run from me. I mean, my heart donít bleed Kool-Aid."
    -"ďI ainít no diva! I donít have no blond hair, red hair. Iím Reggie Evans.Ē

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