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Thread: DeMar DeRozan vs. Rip Hamilton

  1. #101
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Axel, the comparison is so off.
    Not only did you use surface stats to compare, youre comparing a PG with an SG, so no upped TO's and Asts are not 'just a wash' they are systematic differences between the players and what they do on the court. I think you were trying to get a point across about how arbitrary it is to compare by stats, but your point has failed because this comparison is not even close to the Rip/Demar comparison of the OP.
    As the title said, "equally irrelevant comparison".

    The point is that similar stats mean nothing. The players are nothing alike, and that applies to both sets of comparisons. The teams they play on are nothing alike. The OP is as equally irrelevant as this one.

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  3. #102
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    As the title said, "equally irrelevant comparison".

    The point is that similar stats mean nothing. The players are nothing alike, and that applies to both sets of comparisons. The teams they play on are nothing alike. The OP is as equally irrelevant as this one.
    I wouldn't go that far - but based on how the thread has evolved I'd say you are correct.

    There is a good comparison to be had for Rip and DD's mid-range game. But in the end that is where the comparison should have ended.
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    As the title said, "equally irrelevant comparison".

    The point is that similar stats mean nothing. The players are nothing alike, and that applies to both sets of comparisons. The teams they play on are nothing alike. The OP is as equally irrelevant as this one.
    This is my contention when comparing stats of any two players on different teams, whether the players are alike or not. There are so many varying factors that affect the stats that stat geeking is silliness to me.

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  6. #104
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Here's an equally irrelevant comparison.

    Age GS MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% 3PA

    21 81 3093 8.4 17.9 0.4 1.5 4.3 6.0 1.2 2.6 3.8 7.4 2.3 0.3 3.8 3.7 21.6 .472 .288 .710 125
    23 82 3013 6.5 14.7 0.4 1.4 4.2 5.1 0.6 3.2 3.8 2.4 0.9 0.3 1.8 2.1 17.7 .445 .283 .831 120

    Demar's stats (2nd line) are very comparable to the player above. Playing almost equal playing time, similar scoring, and nearly identical 3PA (both per game and season total) and %. Player 1 had more assists but also more turnovers, so that's a wash.

    Player 1 made it to the Hall of Fame, so then Demar can improve his game because Player 1 did too.

    Player 1 is also known as Isiah Lord Thomas III.
    Umm what....

    Even just looking at stats, it's pretty clear that player 1 is the far superior player.... 4 more points on a higher field goal percentage, more than 3 times as many assists, more than twice as many steals. And also a PER of 19 compared to 15 that you conveniently left out. Oh yeah, and the fact that player 1 is a PG and player 2 is a SG...

    You also very conveniently chose to compare Isiah's second season to DeMar's 4th. If you looked at Isiah's 4th season where he averaged 20-13-4, it'd be even more clear that these are not even close to the same caliber of player. Not to mention the fact that since Thomas was a ball-dominant PG his playing style was nothing like DeMar's.

    Talk about trying to force an argument, you've got to be kidding me with that.

  7. #105
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Umm what....

    Even just looking at stats, it's pretty clear that player 1 is the far superior player.... 4 more points on a higher field goal percentage, more than 3 times as many assists, more than twice as many steals. And also a PER of 19 compared to 15 that you conveniently left out. Oh yeah, and the fact that player 1 is a PG and player 2 is a SG...

    You also very conveniently chose to compare Isiah's second season to DeMar's 4th. If you looked at Isiah's 4th season where he averaged 20-13-4, it'd be even more clear that these are not even close to the same caliber of player. Not to mention the fact that since Thomas was a ball-dominant PG his playing style was nothing like DeMar's.

    Talk about trying to force an argument, you've got to be kidding me with that.
    Sarcasm. Apparently you don't get it until you're an adult.

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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Sarcasm. Apparently you don't get it until you're an adult.
    If it was sarcasm, why were you defending it just a few posts ago?

    You weren't being sarcastic with that post. You were trying to provide a counter-example, and picked a terrible one. Should've stuck with the Ricky Davis one or maybe Jerry Stackhouse.

  9. #107
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    If it was sarcasm, why were you defending it just a few posts ago?

    You weren't being sarcastic with that post. You were trying to provide a counter-example, and picked a terrible one. Should've stuck with the Ricky Davis one or maybe Jerry Stackhouse.
    You love to accuse others of putting words in your mouth, and yet you do it constantly.

    If you read a sentence that says "Player 1 made it to the Hall of Fame, so then Demar can improve his game because Player 1 did too" then it means:
    A) The poster is a Demar lover and delusional as to how he will progress
    B) The poster is a realist and the comment is laced with sarcasm

    I didn't defend the post as a real post, I defended the intent, which was "The point is that similar stats mean nothing. The players are nothing alike, and that applies to both sets of comparisons. The teams they play on are nothing alike."

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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    You love to accuse others of putting words in your mouth, and yet you do it constantly.

    If you read a sentence that says "Player 1 made it to the Hall of Fame, so then Demar can improve his game because Player 1 did too" then it means:
    A) The poster is a Demar lover and delusional as to how he will progress
    B) The poster is a realist and the comment is laced with sarcasm

    I didn't defend the post as a real post, I defended the intent, which was "The point is that similar stats mean nothing. The players are nothing alike, and that applies to both sets of comparisons. The teams they play on are nothing alike."
    Yeah except I just explained to you why your post doesn't mean anything, because the stats of those two players aren't comparable. I'm not sure if you even looked at the stats that you posted.

    If you wanted to show that similar stats =/= similar playing style or career trajectory you should've used someone who, you know, actually had similar stats to DeRozan.

  11. #109
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    My closing arguments.


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  13. #110
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    DIME Magazine's Top 20 Shooting Guards List

    18. DeMAR DeROZAN
    Much like his teammate Rudy Gay, DeRozan is often slammed for being a ball-stopper, and an inefficient talent who doesn’t do much else besides score. That’s partly true. Toronto’s starting two-guard shot below 45 percent from the field in each of the past two years and is barely a threat from deep. But his all-around game is starting to develop. Last season, the 6-7 athlete saw his rebounds (3.9 per game) and assists (2.5) go up to career-highs while his turnovers (1.8) dropped slightly from 2011-12. He hasn’t made any monster strides since becoming a full-time starter three years ago. Then again, he’s still better than many other two guards, and averaged 18.1 points last year.
    http://dimemag.com/2013/10/top-20-sh...nba-right-now/
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  14. #111
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    DIME Magazine's Top 20 Shooting Guards List

    http://dimemag.com/2013/10/top-20-sh...nba-right-now/
    Wow. Demar is ranked behind: Jimmy Butler, JJ Redick, Dion Waiters, Klay Thompson, Iman Shumpert, Bradley Beal, Tyreke Evans, Tony Allen and JR Smith? First of all, it really shows the sad state of SG position in the NBA. Secondly, being ranked behind that group should hopefully give Demar some serious motivation.

    Basically, it's Kobe, Wade & Harden followed by a glut of players who are basically of the same value and replaceable for each other.
    Last edited by golden; Tue Oct 1st, 2013 at 03:19 PM.

  15. #112
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Wow. Demar is ranked behind: Jimmy Butler, JJ Redick, Dion Waiters, Klay Thompson, Iman Shumpert, Bradley Beal, Tyreke Evans, Tony Allen and JR Smith? First of all, it really shows the sad state of SG position in the NBA. Secondly, being ranked behind that group should hopefully give Demar some serious motivation.

    Basically, it's Kobe, Wade & Harden followed by a glut of players who are basically of the same value and replaceable for each other.
    Kind of an odd ranking. Iguodala made the list, even though he's probably more of a small forward. And I can't understand how Tyreke Evans was so high.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  16. #113
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    ESPN SportsNation - fan voting - ranked him 16 out of 20 this summer.

    http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post...hooting-guards

  17. #114
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Wow. Demar is ranked behind: Jimmy Butler, JJ Redick, Dion Waiters, Klay Thompson, Iman Shumpert, Bradley Beal, Tyreke Evans, Tony Allen and JR Smith? First of all, it really shows the sad state of SG position in the NBA. Secondly, being ranked behind that group should hopefully give Demar some serious motivation.

    Basically, it's Kobe, Wade & Harden followed by a glut of players who are basically of the same value and replaceable for each other.
    Makes sense to me. The only guys on there I wouldn't take over DeMar are Waiters (even more inefficient, bad defender), Shumpert (overrated, no offensive game to speak of), and Smith (older, coming off surgery, just as much of a black hole as DeMar, only slightly more efficient).

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    Excellent points Xixak. One I like (in particular) is Demar's ability to post smaller guards. Whereas Rip pretty much HAD to get open to get his shot off (something he was excellent at, almost as good as Allen or Reggie Reggie-the best), Demar hugely improved in this aspect last year. Hopefully:
    1. He builds on it;
    2. less likely to be double teamed due to Gay being here whole season.
    Both mean more opportunities.

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