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Thread: most overrated/underrated raptor

  1. #21
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I would say that the entire team is Underrated. There were a lot of expectations (well at least for me personally) going into last season and they failed badly. Last season has made me look at the team differently and reading posts from others I sense that a majority feel that the Raptors are a border line playoff team. That is possibly true but if everything breaks right (and it's possible) then the team could do very well.

    As for overrated... that would be JV. Not because he's bad or I think he's bad.. it's just because it feels like there is so much expectation for him to be great.. and that may not happen. There is still a debate (and a good one) of whether or not he should have been traded for Harden, and even with hindsight many have felt that it would have been a bad deal.
    Great post. God forbid sounding optimistic, but I actually really like the way the starting 5 fits together and the team chemistry. JV/Amir/Gay is almost a perfectly balanced front court, from a usage/efficiency standpoint. I think JV, Ross, Acy and Fields will be better than last year (Fields cannot possibly be worse, can he?). Hansbrough is an upgrade. Derozan and Lowry are the wild cards - especially Lowry. If Lowry starts Mike Jamesing it for his next contract, then all the nice warm fuzzy chemistry will fall apart pretty fast. DD is the other X-factor. The eye test tells me he's plateaued, but if he surprises (in a positive way), then it's playoffs for sure.

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  3. #22
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    The one thing about Fields is that even if he continues to play poorly.. there are really no expectations from him. And plus he does the little things well (defense/rebounds/good teammate) that if he still can't make a layup or a free throw it won't impact the team by much. In other words Fields != Bargnani.

  4. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Overrated - Jonas. He's going to be an excellent basketball player but I don't think the "franchise calibre" player people at times talk about.

    Underrated - Amir. He's been the best player on this team for 3 years running, and he is still often talked about as a back up.

    Underrated#2 - Lowry. As Slaw pointed out Lowry put up some solid numbers last year but still took a beating in the public sphere. They were rather similar (and in some cases better) than his previous two years as a starter in Houston.

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  6. #24
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Overrated - Jonas. He's going to be an excellent basketball player but I don't think the "franchise calibre" player people at times talk about.

    Underrated - Amir. He's been the best player on this team for 3 years running, and he is still often talked about as a back up.

    Underrated#2 - Lowry. As Slaw pointed out Lowry put up some solid numbers last year but still took a beating in the public sphere. They were rather similar (and in some cases better) than his previous two years as a starter in Houston.
    The critique on Lowry last year probably had more to do with his style (ball-hogging, quick trigger, gambles on defense, etc.) than his pure numbers.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  7. #25
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Overrated - DeRozan

    Underrated - Fields & MU's cast of 1-year-contract characters (ie: Hansborough, Augustin, etc...)

    Biggest over/under-rated unknowns - Gay & Lowry in contract year, Jonas-hype (all 3 could be massively underrated or overrated heading into this season)

  8. #26
    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    I think people were over analyzing Lowry's ballhogging. Yes, you can argue he was ballhogging early in the season, when they were doing poorly and he decided to carry the offense himself. But, Lowry's biggest problem I find is I don't see him being comfortable with his ability to distribute the ball. When Gay was brought in Lowry's offense dissappeared and he was primarily a distributer, but he only did safe passes near the 3 point line or to Demar or Gay 5-10ft away. He wasn't penetrating and dishing, so the offense stagnated, since the iso Demar/Gay was easy to defend.

    Now, he needs to stop butting heads with coaches and gambling on defense with his relatively short arms.

    -------------------------------
    As for the topic of this thread I don't really have an opinion beyond, the ESPN player rankings severely underrated Amir and overrated Augustin ( I think he was our highest ranked bench player and will probably only see the court in blow-outs)
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  9. #27
    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    Any player who consistently shows better numbers in contract years IS A DOUCHE.

  10. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    most overrated Raptor: Drake
    most underrated Raptor: the mascot
    100% agree. No one outside the fans is overrating anybody on this team because the team is made up of fairly replaceable parts. Closest thing would be JV but when you're the only tree in the field....
    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

  11. #29
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Any player who consistently shows better numbers in contract years IS A DOUCHE.
    Or simply human. It's ridiculous to think anyone gives 100% effort every time in anything they do, especially if it's something you do over and over again for a long time (like a job). Incentives, both positive and negative, are excellent at refocusing effort to detail and effort committed to any task.
    Last edited by minks77; Tue Oct 1st, 2013 at 08:48 PM.
    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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  13. #30
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    This question leads to an interesting and encouraging point that nobody on the team is terribly overrated. When you take their salaries, Fields and Amir could be could be considered slightly overrated. I wouldn't say anybody is underrated.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  14. #31
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    Or simply human. It's ridiculous to think anyone gives 100% effort every time in anything they do, especially if it's something you do over and over again for a long time (like a job). Incentives, both positive and negative, are excellent at refocusing effort to detail and effort committed to any task.
    If that refocusing happens like clockwork in contract years, the player is a douche. Sorry bud, there is no grey area here. Your job is to give 100%. You get paid multimillion little bits of motivation to "refocus" and "commit" to your own excellence. When that fails you have thousands of fans, a coach, trainers and your own teammates to motivate you both out of respect and an understanding that you owe that much. To only perform when it might benefit you financially, or worse, so you can abandon the current group of people supporting you is weak character.

    This concept is so easy for me to understand, I'm not sure why it would bother other people that I say it. Your post assumes I don't understand the basic concept of motivation, yet, you don't seem to consider what key motivators should be, and that they are already in place.

    You only perform in contract years, you are a douche.

  15. #32
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    If that refocusing happens like clockwork in contract years, the player is a douche. Sorry bud, there is no grey area here. Your job is to give 100%. You get paid multimillion little bits of motivation to "refocus" and "commit" to your own excellence. When that fails you have thousands of fans, a coach, trainers and your own teammates to motivate you both out of respect and an understanding that you owe that much. To only perform when it might benefit you financially, or worse, so you can abandon the current group of people supporting you is weak character.

    This concept is so easy for me to understand, I'm not sure why it would bother other people that I say it. Your post assumes I don't understand the basic concept of motivation, yet, you don't seem to consider what key motivators should be, and that they are already in place.

    You only perform in contract years, you are a douche.
    +1

    Getting to play basketball as a sustainable living (let alone making millions) should be incentive enough to work your butt off.

  16. #33
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    Exactly. So it is pretty frustrating to see a guy like Lowry, who, last year said all this crap about being ready, working hard yadda yadda, and coming into camp clearly fat, but now coming in to camp in serious shape. So he can what? Get more money? BS, I call RESUME!!!!

    I will concede that yes, the odd player has an epiphany and improves himself and that is what he will do from this moment on for the rest of his career, however, I am also a realist and know this isn't the case with most.

    Toronto isn't contending for shit this year, so all of this hard work Rudy and Kyle put in is just for what??? It won't help Toronto, it will kill them. Watch how it works out.

    edit** I will however consider that by upping their potential on the trade market, Toronto could maybe get something, but, not likely as why would any sane GM trade for a guy he can sign flat out in the Summer.

  17. #34
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    over- Gay
    under- Amir

  18. #35
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    under - Tyler Hansbrough!

  19. #36
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Overrated - Jonas. He's going to be an excellent basketball player but I don't think the "franchise calibre" player people at times talk about.
    I don't see him as a Shaq or Hakeem or Duncan. The guy I have always thought he best compared to in terms of his potential impact is Marc Gasol. Different players in many respects but I do think Val can be as good as Gasol at some point, which is pretty damn good.

    Not to go through a huge laundry list of examples, but at least in Toronto history, the star players (Bosh and Carter) made massive improvements in year two. I think we need to wait on Val 2.0, year two, before becoming to pessimistic or optimistic.

  20. #37
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    under - Tyler Hansbrough!

    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  21. #38
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    If that refocusing happens like clockwork in contract years, the player is a douche. Sorry bud, there is no grey area here. Your job is to give 100%. You get paid multimillion little bits of motivation to "refocus" and "commit" to your own excellence. When that fails you have thousands of fans, a coach, trainers and your own teammates to motivate you both out of respect and an understanding that you owe that much. To only perform when it might benefit you financially, or worse, so you can abandon the current group of people supporting you is weak character.

    This concept is so easy for me to understand, I'm not sure why it would bother other people that I say it. Your post assumes I don't understand the basic concept of motivation, yet, you don't seem to consider what key motivators should be, and that they are already in place.

    You only perform in contract years, you are a douche.
    My post simply states that it's normal to lose focus as you grind through the same old same old. Happens to barristas, middle management, doctors, CEOs and professional athletes. The amount of cheddar may seem relevant to you but as you slag through a boring job on a crappy Wednesday in a non pay day week with a nagging headache and stress from the bills can you really say you are 100% focused? Of course not. That focus will ebb and flow. Look at actors who get $20 mill/movie. Are those their best movies? Usually not. But the movies that got them to that level are often pretty tight. It was the incentive of the big pay day, that hunger, that motivated them. Not the money already in the bank. Ball players are pretty similar. They ball out and sacrifice a ton to get to this level and when they do it's just grind, grind, grind. The dough they are earning is great but that all becomes relative. A contract year is a great incentive and it's near 100% impossible to maintain that level of commitment at all time which is why we think of guys like Kobe and MJ as borderline crazy.

    All that being said Lowry was hurt for a lot of last year and was having a very tough time earning Caseys trust and his dip was certainly not all his fault. I don't think if he puts up numbers this year that it's a contract year aberration and it certainly doesn't fit your "consistently better numbers" statement. After the Rox signed him after the 09-10 season his numbers all went up across the board.

    Yeah there are players who only show up in contract years and that could be construed as douchey but I don't think you could reasonably argue that any of the current squad fit that description.
    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

  22. #39
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Overrated: Lowry

    Underrated: Fields and Hansbrough
    Last edited by TRex; Thu Oct 3rd, 2013 at 01:47 AM.
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  23. #40
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    The most overrated player right now is Terrence Ross. Everyone is blinded by his incredible athleticism. Right now, he needs to put on weight, work on his ball handling and ability to create shots. He can be a great player, and potentially replace a massive contract like demar's or rudy's, but he has some work to do.

    The most underrated player is Steve Novak. This guy needs to be playing for more then half the game. The ONLY player that can open up space for two great slashers in gay and derozan. The guy is automatic, and having a player like him will be huge for the Raptors. If he can hold his own on defence(i know its a stretch) he will allow the offence to flow the only way it can, as long as Lowry passes the basketball.

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