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Thread: ESPN.com: NBA Power Rankings (Toronto)

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default ESPN.com: NBA Power Rankings (Toronto)

    Raptors start the preseason at 23.

    This week's announcement that the 2016 All-Star Game is Toronto-bound came as welcome news to your Canada-loving rankings curator. The Raps could make this a lot easier with a return to relevance, but now I'm guaranteed a trip to one of my favorite cities on Earth ... in a mere three-plus years.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/powerrankings...r/2014/week/-1
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Before I clicked on this thread, I thought to myself roughly where I'd put them. The number I settled on was 23. But I also would have put them at ninth in the East, rather than 10th (Washington being the team I'd put below them).

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Who cares.

    Raptors will finish 6th or 7th in the East this coming season. You heard it here first.
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Who cares.

    Raptors will finish 6th or 7th in the East this coming season. You heard it here first.
    I think I said it back in July...so you heard it THERE first

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    I think I said it back in July...so you heard it THERE first
    Nah...i didnt see it so it doesn't count
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

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    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    23rd overall and 10th in the East sounds like the most likely outcome. Sure, if everything goes great they may finish 7th or 8th in the East - but when was the last time everything went great for the Toronto Raptors? You had BC's first year here, then you'd have to go back 10+ seasons to find the next one (pre-Vince meltdown). A higher finish is possible, but less likely.

    Very interesting is the huge leap Stein has Washington, Detroit, and Cleveland making. Also, Pacers #2 and Nets #3 overall? Wow - that's the optimal outcome for those teams. And OKC falling to #7 - is their lack of depth going to hurt that much? They need help on the bench.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be surprised if the Brooklyn experiment fails miserably. There doesn't seem to be enough ball to go around. Deron Williams has a rep for being a baby, KG seems pretty set in his ways, Johnson does nothing but shoot, Pierce has been a #1 option his entire career, and a rookie head coach expected to manage all these egos. I dunno, they just seem like a ticking-time bomb waiting to explode.
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    Quote S.R. wrote: View Post
    23rd overall and 10th in the East sounds like the most likely outcome. Sure, if everything goes great they may finish 7th or 8th in the East - but when was the last time everything went great for the Toronto Raptors? You had BC's first year here, then you'd have to go back 10+ seasons to find the next one (pre-Vince meltdown). A higher finish is possible, but less likely.

    Very interesting is the huge leap Stein has Washington, Detroit, and Cleveland making. Also, Pacers #2 and Nets #3 overall? Wow - that's the optimal outcome for those teams. And OKC falling to #7 - is their lack of depth going to hurt that much? They need help on the bench.
    See I think this is about the least likely outcome. The way I imagine it shaking down:
    If we're not in SOLID position to get around the 7th seed (ie: if we're scrapping for the 8th around the all-star break) we trade away EVERYTHING and play Val + 10-day contracts to finish out the season. I don't think we wait till the deadline. Either we're playing like an actual playoff team, or it's blown up before other teams start scrambling to tank. In the East, 9th place is only about 4 extra losses from a good lottery position. Besides, there's no way we'll be able to catch (fall back to....) Philly.
    "This just in........ THE RAPTORS ARE AMAZING!"

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if the Brooklyn experiment fails miserably. There doesn't seem to be enough ball to go around. Deron Williams has a rep for being a baby, KG seems pretty set in his ways, Johnson does nothing but shoot, Pierce has been a #1 option his entire career, and a rookie head coach expected to manage all these egos. I dunno, they just seem like a ticking-time bomb waiting to explode.
    Agreed. I think there's a fairly legitimate parallel to be drawn between Brooklyn and last season's Blue Jays. Lots of hype, lots of big (and old) names, and yet an unshakably fragile feeling to the whole situation.

    Sometimes these 'transplant' trades just don't work in reality like they seem to on paper. Count me as another doubter -- I won't be remotely surprised if they're below .500 half way through November.

    (I also won't be remotely surprised if that leads Prokorov to blow it up, he doesn't strike me as the most patient owner...)

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    I'll go on record and say that the Nets will be a great team this season. I understand that it's not as simple as stacking big name on top of big name - the Lakers are a prime example of that in the not too distant past - but KG and Pierce have been making similar sacrifices in Boston for the last 5 years and seemed perfectly okay with it. Especially KG - he seems satisfied with being a team's defensive anchor and taking whatever offense happens to come his way. Lopez and Joe Johnson are notoriously docile personalities, so I don't expect their egos to derail it either.

    The big x-factor will be Deron Williams and the way he responds to the new guys and coach Kidd. If he buys in I think they have an actual chance to win a title (health permitting).

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    Quote Mundy wrote: View Post
    See I think this is about the least likely outcome. The way I imagine it shaking down:
    If we're not in SOLID position to get around the 7th seed (ie: if we're scrapping for the 8th around the all-star break) we trade away EVERYTHING and play Val + 10-day contracts to finish out the season. I don't think we wait till the deadline. Either we're playing like an actual playoff team, or it's blown up before other teams start scrambling to tank. In the East, 9th place is only about 4 extra losses from a good lottery position. Besides, there's no way we'll be able to catch (fall back to....) Philly.
    What I worry about is a scenario where the Raptors are sitting 7th at the trade deadline, but spots 6-11 in the Eastern Conference are all decided by a handful of games between the Atlanta/Toronto/Washington/Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee tier.
    The team could technically be a playoff team when the tough decision needs to be made at the deadline, but then one bad run of games down the stretch and they end up finishing 10th and picking 13th overall or something.

    If you're waiting for this roster to give you a definitive answer on which direction to go - you're probably going to wait the whole season. I seriously doubt they'll ever be 10 games over or under .500 at any point as assembled. They're going to be floating around .500 the entire way. That's why I'd like to see Ujiri be much more proactive in his dissection of the roster.
    Last edited by Fully; Thu Oct 3rd, 2013 at 11:19 AM.

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if the Brooklyn experiment fails miserably. There doesn't seem to be enough ball to go around. Deron Williams has a rep for being a baby, KG seems pretty set in his ways, Johnson does nothing but shoot, Pierce has been a #1 option his entire career, and a rookie head coach expected to manage all these egos. I dunno, they just seem like a ticking-time bomb waiting to explode.
    That kind of stuff doesn't usually happen unless you lose a lot of games though. These guys are pretty hungry about winning a championship and I think most of those guys will fall in line when it comes down to it because they want to win. Something pretty drastic would have to happen for the team to implode. They said the same things about Miami when they first assembled that team.
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    What I worry about is a scenario where the Raptors are sitting 7th at the trade deadline, but spots 6-11 in the Eastern Conference are all decided by a handful of games between the Atlanta/Toronto/Washington/Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee tier.
    The team could technically be a playoff team when the tough decision needs to be made at the deadline, but then one bad run of games down the stretch and they end up finishing 10th and picking 13th overall or something.

    If you're waiting for this roster to give you a definitive answer on which direction to go - you're probably going to wait the whole season. I seriously doubt they'll ever be 10 games over or under .500 at any point as assembled. They're going to be floating around .500 the entire way. That's why I'd like to see Ujiri be much more proactive in his dissection of the roster.
    Agreed. This is going to be the toughest part of the "wait and see" approach. The line between seeds 7 through 10 can be narrow, and the final outcome often isn't settled until the last couple weeks of the season. It's pretty optimistic to think you'll be able to make that decision sometime around December-February.

    I don't think Ujiri's "wait and see" is really about seeing how well this team can play. I'm guessing that wait and see really means he's gonna be patient in hearing out trade proposals and he's not interested in a fire sale. He'll keep this team together if he's not offered anything great and if the season's going alright. This'll only change if the team plays absolutely horribly (that may prompt a fire sale) or if they play out of their minds and he's more inclined to keep them together. Anywhere in between and he'll just be waiting for a great deal to pull the trigger on. I do not believe TL and MU were brought in just to sit back and see how Colangelo's roster does with Bargnani out of the lineup.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote S.R. wrote: View Post
    I do not believe TL and MU were brought in just to sit back and see how Colangelo's roster does with Bargnani out of the lineup.
    Good point.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Mundy's Avatar
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    What I worry about is a scenario where the Raptors are sitting 7th at the trade deadline, but spots 6-11 in the Eastern Conference are all decided by a handful of games between the Atlanta/Toronto/Washington/Cleveland/Detroit/Milwaukee tier.
    The team could technically be a playoff team when the tough decision needs to be made at the deadline, but then one bad run of games down the stretch and they end up finishing 10th and picking 13th overall or something.

    If you're waiting for this roster to give you a definitive answer on which direction to go - you're probably going to wait the whole season. I seriously doubt they'll ever be 10 games over or under .500 at any point as assembled. They're going to be floating around .500 the entire way. That's why I'd like to see Ujiri be much more proactive in his dissection of the roster.
    I can see where you're coming from, but I also think that there's a few teams that will be willing to drop off if they're not 7 or 8. Like, I don't see somebody scrapping to get the 8th spot from 10. Something tells me that the separation from the 6 to 9 seed will grow dramatically after the deadline.

    ....not that that offers a ton of comfort to lots of fans, but I think if we're in 7th place at the deadline, there's not going to be a lot of teams below us trying to get better by giving up assets.
    "This just in........ THE RAPTORS ARE AMAZING!"

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mundy wrote: View Post
    I can see where you're coming from, but I also think that there's a few teams that will be willing to drop off if they're not 7 or 8. Like, I don't see somebody scrapping to get the 8th spot from 10. Something tells me that the separation from the 6 to 9 seed will grow dramatically after the deadline.

    ....not that that offers a ton of comfort to lots of fans, but I think if we're in 7th place at the deadline, there's not going to be a lot of teams below us trying to get better by giving up assets.

    I said this in the trade forum.... Raptors should be looking to bolster the other groups in that 7-11 group (Cleveland, Milwaukee, Charlotte, Detroit). I think Milwaukee (along with a few other teams) are waiting for Rondo to play out as I said in another thread.

    The Raptors have been in the 7-11 group for the last few years. Teams like Charlotte, Detroit, and Cleveland have ownership groups that are adamant about making the playoffs. They have been so bad for so long they just want to see some success to keep the fans interested. The difference between those teams and Toronto is that in being bad they've acquired drafted talent and prepared cap space while Toronto has not been down that road. Like all Toronto teams under Colangelo they've done everything (compete/tank) half-assed. The one year they did it properly, sure they slid from 3rd to 5th in the draft, but they still got a talented prospect in JV.
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    Yeah I don't see teams like Cleveland, Detroit and Washington "selling off" in the traditional sense at the deadline if they're on the outside looking in. Those teams already have a bunch of young, cheap talent on their teams, and in the case of Washington + Cleveland, a ton of cap room set up for next summer. Detroit will likely give up their first rounder to Charlotte in 2014 as well so there's no real motivation for them to try and sink down unless they plan on gutting the entire thing so their pick lands within it's protections. It is much less of a do or die season for them than Toronto.

    If Atlanta or Milwaukee are on the fringe of the playoff picture at the deadline, then yes, maybe I could see them making a few moves to increase their number of ping-pong balls. They aren't a guarantee either however. It was only last year when the Bucks traded Tobias Harris to Orlando for a JJ Redick rental, just so they could lock up and 8 seed and get swept in round one.
    Last edited by Fully; Thu Oct 3rd, 2013 at 01:53 PM.

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    Typical ESPN "Raptors suck! you mad Toronto? prove as wrong!"

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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Typical ESPN "Raptors suck! you mad Toronto? prove as wrong!"
    It's been years since we proved them wrong, lol.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    Quote S.R. wrote: View Post
    Agreed. This is going to be the toughest part of the "wait and see" approach. The line between seeds 7 through 10 can be narrow, and the final outcome often isn't settled until the last couple weeks of the season. It's pretty optimistic to think you'll be able to make that decision sometime around December-February.

    I don't think Ujiri's "wait and see" is really about seeing how well this team can play. I'm guessing that wait and see really means he's gonna be patient in hearing out trade proposals and he's not interested in a fire sale. He'll keep this team together if he's not offered anything great and if the season's going alright. This'll only change if the team plays absolutely horribly (that may prompt a fire sale) or if they play out of their minds and he's more inclined to keep them together. Anywhere in between and he'll just be waiting for a great deal to pull the trigger on. I do not believe TL and MU were brought in just to sit back and see how Colangelo's roster does with Bargnani out of the lineup.
    Wouldn't this be the antithesis of patience though? Being patient and waiting for the right deal kind of falls apart if the 'waiting' is contingent on good play. Trading players who are playing poorly rarely works out in the long run (see: Vince Carter).

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