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ESPN.com: NBA Power Rankings (Toronto)

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  • #16
    Mundy wrote: View Post
    I can see where you're coming from, but I also think that there's a few teams that will be willing to drop off if they're not 7 or 8. Like, I don't see somebody scrapping to get the 8th spot from 10. Something tells me that the separation from the 6 to 9 seed will grow dramatically after the deadline.

    ....not that that offers a ton of comfort to lots of fans, but I think if we're in 7th place at the deadline, there's not going to be a lot of teams below us trying to get better by giving up assets.

    I said this in the trade forum.... Raptors should be looking to bolster the other groups in that 7-11 group (Cleveland, Milwaukee, Charlotte, Detroit). I think Milwaukee (along with a few other teams) are waiting for Rondo to play out as I said in another thread.

    The Raptors have been in the 7-11 group for the last few years. Teams like Charlotte, Detroit, and Cleveland have ownership groups that are adamant about making the playoffs. They have been so bad for so long they just want to see some success to keep the fans interested. The difference between those teams and Toronto is that in being bad they've acquired drafted talent and prepared cap space while Toronto has not been down that road. Like all Toronto teams under Colangelo they've done everything (compete/tank) half-assed. The one year they did it properly, sure they slid from 3rd to 5th in the draft, but they still got a talented prospect in JV.

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    • #17
      Yeah I don't see teams like Cleveland, Detroit and Washington "selling off" in the traditional sense at the deadline if they're on the outside looking in. Those teams already have a bunch of young, cheap talent on their teams, and in the case of Washington + Cleveland, a ton of cap room set up for next summer. Detroit will likely give up their first rounder to Charlotte in 2014 as well so there's no real motivation for them to try and sink down unless they plan on gutting the entire thing so their pick lands within it's protections. It is much less of a do or die season for them than Toronto.

      If Atlanta or Milwaukee are on the fringe of the playoff picture at the deadline, then yes, maybe I could see them making a few moves to increase their number of ping-pong balls. They aren't a guarantee either however. It was only last year when the Bucks traded Tobias Harris to Orlando for a JJ Redick rental, just so they could lock up and 8 seed and get swept in round one.
      Last edited by Fully; Thu Oct 3, 2013, 01:53 PM.

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      • #18
        Typical ESPN "Raptors suck! you mad Toronto? prove as wrong!"

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        • #19
          Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
          Typical ESPN "Raptors suck! you mad Toronto? prove as wrong!"
          It's been years since we proved them wrong, lol.

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          • #20
            S.R. wrote: View Post
            Agreed. This is going to be the toughest part of the "wait and see" approach. The line between seeds 7 through 10 can be narrow, and the final outcome often isn't settled until the last couple weeks of the season. It's pretty optimistic to think you'll be able to make that decision sometime around December-February.

            I don't think Ujiri's "wait and see" is really about seeing how well this team can play. I'm guessing that wait and see really means he's gonna be patient in hearing out trade proposals and he's not interested in a fire sale. He'll keep this team together if he's not offered anything great and if the season's going alright. This'll only change if the team plays absolutely horribly (that may prompt a fire sale) or if they play out of their minds and he's more inclined to keep them together. Anywhere in between and he'll just be waiting for a great deal to pull the trigger on. I do not believe TL and MU were brought in just to sit back and see how Colangelo's roster does with Bargnani out of the lineup.
            Wouldn't this be the antithesis of patience though? Being patient and waiting for the right deal kind of falls apart if the 'waiting' is contingent on good play. Trading players who are playing poorly rarely works out in the long run (see: Vince Carter).

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            • #21
              Nilanka wrote: View Post
              It's been years since we proved them wrong, lol.
              It's a futile battle though. Even when we won the Division Championship, we didn't 'prove them wrong'. Getting bounced in the first round was just 'confirmation' that our season was a fluke. I remember that pissing me off sooo much.

              With the Americna media you're Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

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              • #22
                themasao wrote: View Post
                It's a futile battle though. Even when we won the Division Championship, we didn't 'prove them wrong'. Getting bounced in the first round was just 'confirmation' that our season was a fluke. I remember that pissing me off sooo much.

                With the Americna media you're Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

                Well in hindsight, that 2006-07 team did seem like a fluke

                Garbo's injury changed the fate of the franchise for years to come.

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                • #23
                  Nilanka wrote: View Post
                  Well in hindsight, that 2006-07 team did seem like a fluke

                  Garbo's injury changed the fate of the franchise for years to come.
                  Haha I knew someone would say that. But I'd argue that's the opposite of fluke. The injury was the fluke, not the season.

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                  • #24
                    themasao wrote: View Post
                    Wouldn't this be the antithesis of patience though? Being patient and waiting for the right deal kind of falls apart if the 'waiting' is contingent on good play. Trading players who are playing poorly rarely works out in the long run (see: Vince Carter).
                    Yeah, I guess I'm trying to say Ujiri is less likely to be swayed by on-court performance (as a response to the "wait 'till we see if we're the 7th seed or the 9th seed" perspective - I doubt MU's thinking is short-term enough to have that small performance variation dictate whether he does something as fundamental as stick with this core or sell it off) - but then on second thought I figured he probably would be swayed somewhat if the on-court results were extremely good or extremely bad. Is he patient/composed enough to ignore what's happening on the floor completely and stick to his plan? He could be. He sure hung in there through the Melodrama way longer than your typical GM would.
                    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                    • #25
                      One thing to keep in mind is that Stein's power rankings are more about what would happen if a team played another team right now, as opposed to predicting what the final standings would look like.
                      "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                      "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                      "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                      • #26
                        themasao wrote: View Post
                        Agreed. I think there's a fairly legitimate parallel to be drawn between Brooklyn and last season's Blue Jays. Lots of hype, lots of big (and old) names, and yet an unshakably fragile feeling to the whole situation.

                        Sometimes these 'transplant' trades just don't work in reality like they seem to on paper. Count me as another doubter -- I won't be remotely surprised if they're below .500 half way through November.

                        (I also won't be remotely surprised if that leads Prokorov to blow it up, he doesn't strike me as the most patient owner...)
                        I think the better parallel might be when LAL added Malone and GP (or even last year when they added Nash). It all seems good until injuries creep up (which of course they will with an old team).

                        As for the Jays .. we should have saw that coming .. a bunch of overpaid guys off the marlins scrap heap who hadnt won anything .. as much as Im not a huge KG fan, its an insult to compare him to the likes of Dickey, Johnson, Burhle, even Reyes ..

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                        • #27
                          Nilanka wrote: View Post
                          It's been years since we proved them wrong, lol.
                          Exactly so continuing ranking us low they aren't wrong for it, Raps fans need to chill and look at the history of the franchise we've sucked ever since VC left.

                          As Stephen A Smith would say after a long LMFAOOOO "THA TORNTO RAPTORS!??? O DEAR LORD .....I dont think theres a more irrelevant team in tha LEAGUE! An absolute disGRACEEEE to Basketball."

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                          • #28
                            ebrian wrote: View Post
                            That kind of stuff doesn't usually happen unless you lose a lot of games though. These guys are pretty hungry about winning a championship and I think most of those guys will fall in line when it comes down to it because they want to win. Something pretty drastic would have to happen for the team to implode. They said the same things about Miami when they first assembled that team.
                            I don't trust Jason Kidd as a coach being capable of managing this group of veterans. These guys played against him (last year!) and I honestly don't know that he is "smarter" than KG. I can see this unraveling quickly as the team has a power struggle. Kidd would have been better served residing over a young team that "looks up" to him, rather than a group of his peers.

                            Not to mention, all those players know Kidd's history (alcohol, spousal abuse). Heck, he got a DUI this summer. I find it hard to believe that the players will buy in and respect him the same way they would with a veteran or more proven coach.

                            The Miami example had one HUGE difference, in that Wade had Spoelstra's back. Wade & Riley would prop Spoelstra at every chance, so LeBron, Bosh etc would follow Wade's advice. I don't see anyone in the Nets locker room being a Kidd-guy in that way. Plus the owner is crazy. I wouldn't be surprised if Kidd is fired by Christmas and replaced by a Van Gundy.
                            Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                            If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                            • #29
                              Axel wrote: View Post
                              I don't trust Jason Kidd as a coach being capable of managing this group of veterans. These guys played against him (last year!) and I honestly don't know that he is "smarter" than KG. I can see this unraveling quickly as the team has a power struggle. Kidd would have been better served residing over a young team that "looks up" to him, rather than a group of his peers.

                              Not to mention, all those players know Kidd's history (alcohol, spousal abuse). Heck, he got a DUI this summer. I find it hard to believe that the players will buy in and respect him the same way they would with a veteran or more proven coach.

                              The Miami example had one HUGE difference, in that Wade had Spoelstra's back. Wade & Riley would prop Spoelstra at every chance, so LeBron, Bosh etc would follow Wade's advice. I don't see anyone in the Nets locker room being a Kidd-guy in that way. Plus the owner is crazy. I wouldn't be surprised if Kidd is fired by Christmas and replaced by a Van Gundy.
                              And this...


                              Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                              If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                              • #30
                                Axel wrote: View Post
                                I don't trust Jason Kidd as a coach being capable of managing this group of veterans. These guys played against him (last year!) and I honestly don't know that he is "smarter" than KG. I can see this unraveling quickly as the team has a power struggle. Kidd would have been better served residing over a young team that "looks up" to him, rather than a group of his peers.

                                Not to mention, all those players know Kidd's history (alcohol, spousal abuse). Heck, he got a DUI this summer. I find it hard to believe that the players will buy in and respect him the same way they would with a veteran or more proven coach.

                                The Miami example had one HUGE difference, in that Wade had Spoelstra's back. Wade & Riley would prop Spoelstra at every chance, so LeBron, Bosh etc would follow Wade's advice. I don't see anyone in the Nets locker room being a Kidd-guy in that way. Plus the owner is crazy. I wouldn't be surprised if Kidd is fired by Christmas and replaced by a Van Gundy.
                                And this..

                                http://thebiglead.com/2013/07/16/onc...yre-teammates/

                                How's Blatche going to handle KG barking at him for completely missing an assignment or rotation? How is Kidd going to handle Blatche and KG? They say all is fine, but Blatche still seems like an immature big with poor basketball IQ while KG is the most intense and demanding player, perhaps ever...

                                And this...

                                NEW YORK -- Brooklyn Nets power forward Kevin Garnett said his talk with first-year coach Jason Kidd about possibly not playing both games of back-to-back sets "didn't go too well."

                                http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/stor...me-sets-season
                                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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