View Poll Results: Do you think Casey is getting a fair shot or is Ujiri just letting the situation and

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Thread: Casey getting a fair shot or Ujiri waiting it out?

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  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Casey getting a fair shot or Ujiri waiting it out?

    TORONTO ó Dwane Casey is not supposed to still be here.
    Toronto Raptors look for big things from Jonas Valanciunas: ĎThe ceiling is so high for himí

    It was just 10 months ago that Casey was close to losing his job. The Raptors returned from a West Coast trip with a 4-18 record, and general manager Bryan Colangelo and his front office discussed firing the second-year coach. Ultimately, Casey hung on to his job and the Raptors split their final 60 games.

    At the end of the year, at least partly out of self-preservation, Colangelo chained himself to Casey Ö and was promptly fired (or re-assigned, if you prefer the vague language of press releases). New Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment president and CEO Tim Leiweke brought in Masai Ujiri from Denver to replace Colangelo, and it seemed likely Ujiri would hire his own coach.

    http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...-another-shot/
    Do you think Casey is getting a fair shot or is Ujiri just letting the situation and contract run its course?
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  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i dunno i think it's one of those "you have a year to surprise us" type deals
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    Why can't it be both? As in "we're giving you a fair shot to see what you can do this season"

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    It's fair in the sense that just about everyone in the Raptors organization got axed this summer and yet Casey's been given another season to show what he can do independent of Colangelo.

    But I think he's going to have to greatly exceed expectations this year in order for Ujiri to extend him, and that will be tough when the roster is a borderline playoff team on it's face. The previous two seasons he's been handed bad rosters as well.

    So a little bit of both?

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    Why can't it be both? As in "we're giving you a fair shot to see what you can do this season"
    Booooo!

    How are we suppose to polarize opinions and create conflict with such rational perspectives?????
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    Raptors Republic All-Star Hotshot's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    Why can't it be both? As in "we're giving you a fair shot to see what you can do this season"
    I just hope it won't be a deja vu scenario like what happened with Smitch and Colangelo, where I believe Colangelo had the same strategy and was leaning more on letting Smitch go at season's end and hiring his own coach. Fortunately the new players that were brought, Smitch system and a very week Eastern conference has foiled that plan. Will Ujiri have the cojones (unlike Colangelo) to let go of Casey if Casey overachieve's (due to almost the same circumstances) and let him go if he see's the option for a better coach will be available the following season?!

    Maybe the question should have asked were there better coaches that were available in the NBA other then Casey this season?! the answer to that is yes. Would these coaches would have come to Toronto giving the Raptors current flawed treadmill team roster?! the answer to that is No. Hence the decision to let Casey coach this season may have been the most practical one.
    Last edited by Hotshot; Mon Oct 7th, 2013 at 02:57 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    I honestly don't know what MU is thinking, and I'm not ashamed to say it. He keeps things so close to the vest, that it will probably be a done deal (fired, extended) before we even know there was a conversation.

    I hope that Casey is getting a fair shot. I think he's got better defensive options that he has had (no Bargnani) and could finally install that hard-nose defensive culture he's wanted to. I think the offence can struggle and MU will hold on as long as the D is playing the way it should be. That said, if the D isn't there with a defensive coach, then I can see MU using the season as an evaluation period without the additional costs of paying 2 head coaches.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Casey and the core both have a shot at proving themselves this season. If they honestly want to "wait and see" a bit on the roster, it wouldn't make sense to switch coaches, imho. Then you'd have that major transition for everybody to adjust to, which would be the next excuse for underachieving.

    By keeping the status quo, there are no excuses for anybody. The roster and the coach all get a fair shot to prove themselves to the new management.

    If MU didn't want to dismantle the roster right out of the gate, then I think it makes a lot of sense to keep Casey. There's too much coaching turnover in general, because that's the easiest position to fill. I don't think it helps teams much to have such a short leash on the coach.

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I think he's getting a fair shot. His contract, and the team's situation, are definitely factors in MU keeping him on board, but I believe he's being evaluated with a clean slate, and being given the chance to show how he wants to coach, and how that works with the players.

    It's not easy to find good head coaches, and it's also not easy to attract them to an uncertain situation. The way I see it is MU really didn't want a new guy. Giving a new guy his first big shot, like hiring a first time head coach, could easily be a disaster where he struggles to implement a system and never gets the players following him. Hiring a big name would not be easy given the Raps situation.

    Casey gives them continuity and a guy who knows this team. He makes it easier to evaluate the team, including himself, since if hte team shows no real progress, it's easy to assume coaching is part of the problem. But if the team (and individuals) show significant progress, it should be easier to see what players don't fit in what seems to be a workable system, at least for the time being. So yeah, I think he's being evaluated, like the whole team, and does have a real shot to stay on. I don't know the odds, but I dno't think it's a terribly small shot.

    And I don't think if he makes it to next season that it necessarily means he'll be here a long time. I could easily see them give him like a 2 year extension, and then if by his 2nd year the talent has been upgraded and he's struggling to take the team a level higher, they'll fire him and shop the job to coaches when it's more appealing.

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    its nice when we can shortstick the argument that his terrible coaching last year was all because of BC; i dont think we can blame 100% of it on BC, right? casey's offensive game seems almost non existent at times. while raptors defense did improve, i wouldnt say it lived up to the 'hype'.

    if UM is gonna make big changes to the team next season or after, it doesnt make a lot of sense to labor through signing a new coach w/ a multiyear deal. and especially hard to sign a good coach now with all these superteams, whom most would rather go and coach for.

    i dont think casey will be here next year. at least, not in a head coach capacity.

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    its nice when we can shortstick the argument that his terrible coaching last year was all because of BC; i dont think we can blame 100% of it on BC, right? casey's offensive game seems almost non existent at times. while raptors defense did improve, i wouldnt say it lived up to the 'hype'.

    if UM is gonna make big changes to the team next season or after, it doesnt make a lot of sense to labor through signing a new coach w/ a multiyear deal. and especially hard to sign a good coach now with all these superteams, whom most would rather go and coach for.

    i dont think casey will be here next year. at least, not in a head coach capacity.
    This is true. The thing I like about Year 1 Casey is that (theoretically) he can take the team to an above-average defense and an average offense. That's a great recipe for some playoff success. IF the team manages to get to that level and appears to plateau because of a lack of creativity on offense, then I'd cross that bridge at that time and look at a coaching change.

    But I think Casey showed enough in year 1 to give him the benefit of the doubt and some leash. Coaching stability is good (unless your coach is Vinny del Negro). Casey's a new HC, and you've got to hope that he can learn and develop through experience, same as you expect of your players. Spolestra's a great example of hanging in there with a guy when there were a few reasons to replace him early on, and reaping the benefits later.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    I think Ujiri doesn't quite know where we're at, and the intention is to play it out. Two things can come from this:

    (a) We're actually pretty good and with some contracts expiring soon we can build.
    (b) We're not very good and we'll blow it up.

    Neither of these two scenarios requires a new coach.
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    I'm looking forward to the George Karl era.
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    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    I'm looking forward to the George Karl era.
    please, pretty please.

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    Well with the things UM is saying, it seems like he believes in DC and is willing to give him a fair shot. UM was quoted for saying there'll be no snitch on DC's staff now that he went and overhauled it. If UM really didn't want DC around, he would have gone and replaced him along with the rest of the staff to start anew.

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    I don't necessarily agree with the decision but it's quite clear he's being given a fair shot. The fact that he was retained when Ujiri could have simply fired him without being answerable to anybody(BC's hire) proves he's getting a fair chance. Besides why would anyone waste precious time by letting his(Casey) contract run it's course.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    I don't necessarily agree with the decision but it's quite clear he's being given a fair shot. The fact that he was retained when Ujiri could have simply fired him without being answerable to anybody(BC's hire) proves he's getting a fair chance. Besides why would anyone waste precious time by letting his(Casey) contract run it's course.
    I think MU knows he has the time to be patient and make informed decisions. Most GMs don't have a huge amount of goodwill built up before they play a game, but with how hard MLSE went after him, MU knows that he has more leeway to play with.

    Letting Casey coach the season allows MU to evaluate the entire team (roster and staff) in a no pressure situation. This is still largely BC's roster, so if they lose, it's BC's fault. Plus MLSE doesn't have to pay 2 coaches this way.

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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Letting Casey coach the season allows MU to evaluate the entire team (roster and staff) in a no pressure situation. This is still largely BC's roster, so if they lose, it's BC's fault. Plus MLSE doesn't have to pay 2 coaches this way.
    I disagree that because it is BC's roster, it is BC's fault if Casey and the team fails. MU's time started the time he was hired. He didn't have to go with the Coach and roster he inherited. There are a number of things he could have done to alter the roster. I'm not being argumentative and if it seems like I am, sorry.

    Yes there's no pressure to succeed immediately but all signs point to the fact that Casey is being given a fair chance.
    Last edited by Eric Akshinthala; Tue Oct 8th, 2013 at 09:33 PM.
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  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    I disagree that because it is BC's roster, it is BC's fault if Casey and the team fails. MU's time started the time he was hired. He didn't have to go with the Coach and roster he inherited. There are a number of things he could have done to alter the roster. I'm not being argumentative and if it seems like I am, sorry.

    Yes there's no pressure to succeed immediately but all signs point to the fact that Casey is being given a fair chance.
    MU could have made moves, and he made some minor ones, but the fact is the core group of players for this team, Lowry, Gay, Demar, Amir, JV, Fields, Ross are all BC's guys. If the Gay/Derozan combo doesn't work (as many have predicted), then that is still on BC. MU doesn't have to make a move just to change, he has to wait for the right move. If that means being patient, I think he has enough goodwill built up already that people wont blame him for it not working and taking a while to make a change.

  20. #20
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    My internet is wonky and I can't multi-quote...

    But on page one someone referenced BC and SMitch and how SMitch over achieved and BC kept him even though he wasn't the guy he wanted.

    I don't think that is a possibility this for the main reason that the Eastern Conference is the strongest and most competitive it's been in awhile. Before D Rose injury the Bulls had the best regular season in the NBA in two consecutive seasons. Now they are arguably fourth in the depth chart with essentially the same team (Heat, Pacers, Nets, Bulls), you got teams that have been shitty sending the message that they are trying to compete now (Wiz, Cavs, Bucks)

    For Toronto to finish 6th or higher would be quite a feat and if Casey can do that he probably deserves to stay on has Head Coach regardless of personal changes.

    With this Talent level not making the playoffs would probably signal to me that Casey doesn't have that much of an impact.


    Second point, someone also said that they don't see Casey as a championship calibre coach. The thing is though, almost all coaches aren't seen as championship coaches, until suddenly they are. I would say Frank Vogel, Doc Rivers, and Spolstra (If you see him a as a championship calibre coach) fit into that category.

    I think Casey has the ability to put to together a championship calibre defense, which is arguably half the battle. That said, I have no problem with MLSE trying to bring in a sloan/phil jackson/Van Gundy level coach once the raps have a season where they get out of the first round.
    "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee

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