Bill Simmons and Jalen Rose - 23rd in the NBA (Video)

[mcHAPPY]

Wow @ the people getting upset over this. This franchise is terrible and other than a few errors that probably existed in the other previews outside of the Celtics this was an entertaining watch.

All this preview did was make me ask Why did we get Rudy Gay? To save BC's job?, that worked out well. You know who you are who supported this terrible trade.

The issue with the trade for Gay, and the issue that still plagues the roster, is it was made to compliment an infamous Italian who never lived up to his unlimited potential. Had Bargnani played like those infamous ~18 games in 2011-12 this would have been a pretty good trade, I think. Until Ujiri sends parts of the core packing (Lowry, Gay, DD) or a stretch 4 in the mold that Bargnani was 'suppose' to be is obtained, I think the ghost of BC/Bargnani lingers on.



With that said, was it a terrible trade though?

Ed Davis has been replaced by Hansbrough on a contract less than ED's rookie deal and ED will be looking for an extension this summer. Will he be signed for less than $3.2M? Will he be as productive as Hansbrough? Age is certainly one thing in ED's favour though but what about his skill set next to JV?
Calderon was never coming back.
2nd round pick.

At the 2012 draft the rumour was Calderon, ED, #8, and maybe even DD. Patience certainly paid off.

The other issue with determining Gay's value based on the Raptor-Memphis trade is the financial considerations Memphis was dealing with. Teams such as Washington and Charlotte would have had to include a large useless contract that extended beyond last season (Okafor and Gordon, specifically). Memphis took back about $7M less in the trade for last season plus they shaved $10M off their 2013-14 salary number.

Before passing judgement, I'll wait to see what MU can get for Gay. Considering he was able to squeeze a first rounder out of Bargnani, I have hope.

If Gay is traded the question will be: did Gay return more value than Jose/ED/2nd round pick would have? Right now I'm thinking yes.

[Puffer]

...If Gay is traded the question will be: did Gay return more value than Jose/ED/2nd round pick would have? Right now I'm thinking yes.

This is the essence. And hard to see how anyone can argue with this.

[Superjudge]

these questions are so incredibly pointless.
who cares if move X will end up providing more "return value' than move Y did?

I mean, you can ask them, and you can debate, and pontificate and and you can babble alllll day long about it. But make no mistake, none of them mean shit.

All that matters, EVER in pro sports, is the next play, the next game, and the next move. NOTHING else matters.

Past moves, values, success, failure....all in the past.

[Puffer]

...All that matters, EVER in pro sports, is the next play, the next game, and the next move. NOTHING else matters.

Past moves, values, success, failure....all in the past.

Ahh, but two thirds of the posts on this forum are "woulda, coulda, shoulda's."

[mcHAPPY]

these questions are so incredibly pointless.
who cares if move X will end up providing more "return value' than move Y did?

I mean, you can ask them, and you can debate, and pontificate and and you can babble alllll day long about it. But make no mistake, none of them mean shit.

All that matters, EVER in pro sports, is the next play, the next game, and the next move. NOTHING else matters.

Past moves, values, success, failure....all in the past.

We should probably shut down the forums if we can't ask questions, debate, pontificate, or babble allllll day long about it.

Does anyone here really think the thoughts here really mean anything?

Don't be the FUN-PoPo, Craig.

[Nilanka]

Wow @ the people getting upset over this. This franchise is terrible and other than a few errors that probably existed in the other previews outside of the Celtics this was an entertaining watch.

All this preview did was make me ask Why did we get Rudy Gay? To save BC's job?, that worked out well. You know who you are who supported this terrible trade.

We traded Ed freakin' Davis for Gay (and Calderon was walking anyway). I understand he's overpaid, and not that efficient, but how was it a terrible trade? We received the better player by a country mile. We upgraded the talent on our roster, and only committed 2 years to do it.

[Fully]

The issue with the trade for Gay, and the issue that still plagues the roster, is it was made to compliment an infamous Italian who never lived up to his unlimited potential. Had Bargnani played like those infamous ~18 games in 2011-12 this would have been a pretty good trade, I think. Until Ujiri sends parts of the core packing (Lowry, Gay, DD) or a stretch 4 in the mold that Bargnani was 'suppose' to be is obtained, I think the ghost of BC/Bargnani lingers on.



With that said, was it a terrible trade though?

Ed Davis has been replaced by Hansbrough on a contract less than ED's rookie deal and ED will be looking for an extension this summer. Will he be signed for less than $3.2M? Will he be as productive as Hansbrough? Age is certainly one thing in ED's favour though but what about his skill set next to JV?
Calderon was never coming back.
2nd round pick.

At the 2012 draft the rumour was Calderon, ED, #8, and maybe even DD. Patience certainly paid off.

The other issue with determining Gay's value based on the Raptor-Memphis trade is the financial considerations Memphis was dealing with. Teams such as Washington and Charlotte would have had to include a large useless contract that extended beyond last season (Okafor and Gordon, specifically). Memphis took back about $7M less in the trade for last season plus they shaved $10M off their 2013-14 salary number.

Before passing judgement, I'll wait to see what MU can get for Gay. Considering he was able to squeeze a first rounder out of Bargnani, I have hope.

If Gay is traded the question will be: did Gay return more value than Jose/ED/2nd round pick would have? Right now I'm thinking yes.

The Gay trade wasn't made to compliment Bargnani. If anything, Gay was acquired to replace Bargnani as the pseudo franchise cornerstone.

Bargnani had already missed a large portion of the season when Gay was landed, and the writing was on the wall that he was no longer in the plans. Colangelo even made quite a few public comments about trying to trade him, and the difficulty he was having in getting a deal done because of his inability to stay healthy.

I said before the trade happened that it was a terrible idea and that the Raptors would be willingly signing up for a mediocre couple of years in the dreaded no man's land. Gay's acquisition used up two of the team's biggest trade assets (Calderon and Ed Davis) while also handcuffing the team financially at the same time. Fast forward 8 months and what do you know - all major outlets have us in the treadmill spots of the East.

The deal will be slightly more tolerable if Ujiri can flip Gay for a package that is greater than what we gave up, but I doubt it will be a wide margin if it's even possible at all. The only deal we've heard so far is Charlie V & Stuckey, which would actually be significantly less than what the team gave up. Keep in mind that Memphis was shopping Gay last season to seemingly every team in the league (Phoenix reportedly turned down a Jared Dudley & Channing Frye offer for him!) with no bites. They were lucky enough to find the perfect partner in Colangelo - a bad GM, desperate to save his job, and one that was admittingly enamored with Gay since his draft year.

[Fully]

Fucking Colangelo.

[JimiCliff]

If Gay is traded the question will be: did Gay return more value than Jose/ED/2nd round pick would have? Right now I'm thinking yes.

For me, the issue of the trade was never that we were giving up more than we were getting at that moment. It seemed seemed pretty clear, and still does, that we "won" that trade, and that trade alone. The issue was what effect it would have on the team this year, and then on this year's draft. If the trade pulls us up into the 37-45 win range, whereas we would have been in the 25 win range with a roster including Davis, and minus Jose (assuming he would have signed somewhere else), our odds in the lottery take a big hit. Which could then have a massive negative effect on the value of the talent pool of the franchise going forward.

[mcHAPPY]

For me, the issue of the trade was never that we were giving up more than we were getting at that moment. It seemed seemed pretty clear, and still does, that we "won" that trade, and that trade alone. The issue was what effect it would have on the team this year, and then on this year's draft. If the trade pulls us up into the 37-45 win range, whereas we would have been in the 25 win range with a roster including Davis, and minus Jose (assuming he would have signed somewhere else), our odds in the lottery take a big hit. Which could then have a massive negative effect on the value of the talent pool of the franchise going forward.

True.

If MU can trade him before January, maybe the best of both worlds could be had if a tear down is the plan:

Raptors get assets to help the team moving forward (more than Jose/ED/2nd) and can get a high selection on their own pick.

[gametime]

Raptors get assets to help the team moving forward (more than Jose/ED/2nd) and can get a high selection on their own pick.

If the goal is to put themselves in a better position to "trade-up" in the draft for Wiggins (you have to plan for a worst case scenario of NOT winning the lottery, naturally), than sending Rudy packing for a lottery pick + expiring contracts does makes sense... If your focus is the draft, go all in with the best odds.

[Nilanka]

If the goal is to put themselves in a better position to "trade-up" in the draft for Wiggins (you have to plan for a worst case scenario of NOT winning the lottery, naturally), than sending Rudy packing for a lottery pick + expiring contracts does makes sense... If your focus is the draft, go all in with the best odds.

The question is, how likely is it that any team would give up a 2014 lotto pick for Gay (or anyone else on this roster)?

[gametime]

The question is, how likely is it that any team would give up a 2014 lotto pick for Gay (or anyone else on this roster)?

It would most likely include more moving pieces/players on our end for sure.

[JimiCliff]

True.

If MU can trade him before January, maybe the best of both worlds could be had if a tear down is the plan:

Raptors get assets to help the team moving forward (more than Jose/ED/2nd) and can get a high selection on their own pick.

Yup. This is the Michael Corleone move.

GET IT DONE MU!

[slaw]

The question is, how likely is it that any team would give up a 2014 lotto pick for Gay (or anyone else on this roster)?

He got picks for Bargs......