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Thread: To Compete or to Demolish: The Question that's never been answered

  1. #1
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    Default To Compete or to Demolish: The Question that's never been answered

    Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and it's gonna be a pretty loaded first post on here but I just covered the topic anyways so might as well start it off on here as well.

    The link: http://gambleguru.sportsblog.com/pos...e_toronto.html

    Since the emergence of Bryan Colangelo's Raptors squards, we've never really gotten a true direction as a franchise. In essence, we neither took a few consecutive years on the chin in order to build up a worthy talent pool nor did we fully commit to winning otherwise we would've made smarter personnel moves during the Chris Bosh era.

    Now, that crossroads is here again. A dealing of Gay basically assures we'll be one of the 5-7 worst teams in the league and could ensure that we get a good young player with a lot of promise whether or not his name ends up being Andrew Wiggins.

    Where do you guys stand on this? Stay pat and experience some long overdue marginal success or blow it up and build around Jonas and Jonas alone?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar FoxMachine's Avatar
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    This is certainly not a new topic around here.. however, I say blow it up, the sooner the better... I was hoping with a new coaching staff around casey that things might look better with this squad this season but after watching players tendencies and the style of play in these two preseason games its clear nothing has changed... yeah yeah yeah its only preseason, its only preseason, its only preseason.. we've only watched losing basketball for 5 years im tired of this.. thankfully I believe in MU which gives me some hope.. I think he will make the right call

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Ok, let's say the Raps trade Gay and end up having a top 6-8 pick. The guys that are projected to get drafted in that area according to nbadraft.net are Robinson, Selden, Harrison, Embriid. Are any of these guys going to be better than Gay? i would say no.

    As for blowing up the team to have a chance at Wiggins, lol its not gonna happen. UNLESS the Raps get off to another slow start like they did last year. Which is just not gonna happen. This team is too talented for that to happen again.

    Finally, you guys realize that there are other ways to rebuild or re-tool a team other than drafting right??

    One more thing, the Raps finally have an all-star caliber player in Gay. Who IMO is the best player we've had since VC. And now you all want him gone? WTF.

    I say stand pat. Build the team around JV, Gay and DeRozan. Get to the playoffs. And add an IMPACT player at the free agent market in the offseason. That's how i would do it.
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    Dear God. "The question that's never been answered?"

    How about, why is every thread on this subject created by people who refuse to use the search function?

    Ugh.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar FoxMachine's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    dear god. "the question that's never been answered?"

    how about, why is every thread on this subject created by people who refuse to use the search function?

    Ugh.
    lol

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    Raptors Republic Superstar FoxMachine's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Ok, let's say the Raps trade Gay and end up having a top 6-8 pick. The guys that are projected to get drafted in that area according to nbadraft.net are Robinson, Selden, Harrison, Embriid. Are any of these guys going to be better than Gay? i would say no.

    As for blowing up the team to have a chance at Wiggins, lol its not gonna happen. UNLESS the Raps get off to another slow start like they did last year. Which is just not gonna happen. This team is too talented for that to happen again.

    Finally, you guys realize that there are other ways to rebuild or re-tool a team other than drafting right??

    One more thing, the Raps finally have an all-star caliber player in Gay. Who IMO is the best player we've had since VC. And now you all want him gone? WTF.

    I say stand pat. Build the team around JV, Gay and DeRozan. Get to the playoffs. And add an IMPACT player at the free agent market in the offseason. That's how i would do it.
    Gay is not an allstar player and he wont be one this year.. the guy has no discipline or will to get better nor is he eager to learn.. his actions and interviews tell the story.. he is a stubborn player who will continue to take lazy long 2's.. I believe we have talent on this team but I don't believe we know how to use it.. most of them don't have discipline.. so saying we have too much talent to have a bad start.. well I wouldn't be so sure.. I certainly don't think building around gay, JV, and Demar is gonna bring us beyond a playoff berth, I said in another thread there is no light at the end of this tunnel. better to blow it up while JV is still young and while there is a ton of young talent coming up that can grow with him.. build assets and go from there

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote FoxMachine wrote: View Post
    Gay is not an allstar player and he wont be one this year.. the guy has no discipline or will to get better nor is he eager to learn.. his actions and interviews tell the story.. he is a stubborn player who will continue to take lazy long 2's.. I believe we have talent on this team but I don't believe we know how to use it.. most of them don't have discipline.. so saying we have too much talent to have a bad start.. well I wouldn't be so sure.. I certainly don't think building around gay, JV, and Demar is gonna bring us beyond a playoff berth, I said in another thread there is no light at the end of this tunnel. better to blow it up while JV is still young and while there is a ton of young talent coming up that can grow with him.. build assets and go from there
    How do you know that? because of his actions and interviews?? come on.

    Btw, if the Raps 'blow up' the team or 'tank' and finish with the worst record in the league. There is NO guarantee that they're going to get the 1st overall pick.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar FoxMachine's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    How do you know that? because of his actions and interviews?? come on.

    Btw, if the Raps 'blow up' the team or 'tank' and finish with the worst record in the league. There is NO guarantee that they're going to get the 1st overall pick.
    id say that's the best indicator we have to go on.. and I don't care about the top pick.. there are a lot of great young players coming up, I care about talent that can grow with JV and cheap assets with "potential"

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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    How do you know that? because of his actions and interviews?? come on.

    Btw, if the Raps 'blow up' the team or 'tank' and finish with the worst record in the league. There is NO guarantee that they're going to get the 1st overall pick.
    If they continue this mediocre run they are on there IS a guarantee they will continue to be mediocre. Hovering around the back end of the lottery is not the way to do it. Better to take a chance than toil around with over paid almost all stars imo. At least it would be interesting. Cant say that about the last 5 years of this franchise.

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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    How do you know that? because of his actions and interviews?? come on.

    Btw, if the Raps 'blow up' the team or 'tank' and finish with the worst record in the league. There is NO guarantee that they're going to get the 1st overall pick.
    With Exum, WIggins, Randle, Gordon, Harrison, Seldon, Smart, and Parker they don't need the top pick to get a quality pick. All of those guys likely would have been in the discussion for #1 last season based on projections of the strength of this draft. Obviously games haven't been played yet and time will tell.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote FoxMachine wrote: View Post
    id say that's the best indicator we have to go on.. and I don't care about the top pick.. there are a lot of great young players coming up, I care about talent that can grow with JV and cheap assets with "potential"
    Draft picks, prospects, and cap space is a great way to land a great player from a team looking to start over.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  17. #12
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    Is there a bigger and badder word than Demolish we can use????


    If so, I vote, do that.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    Is there a bigger and badder word than Demolish we can use????


    If so, I vote, do that.

    Decimate? Obliterate? Annihilate?

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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Ok, let's say the Raps trade Gay and end up having a top 6-8 pick. The guys that are projected to get drafted in that area according to nbadraft.net are Robinson, Selden, Harrison, Embriid. Are any of these guys going to be better than Gay? i would say no.

    As for blowing up the team to have a chance at Wiggins, lol its not gonna happen. UNLESS the Raps get off to another slow start like they did last year. Which is just not gonna happen. This team is too talented for that to happen again.

    Finally, you guys realize that there are other ways to rebuild or re-tool a team other than drafting right??

    One more thing, the Raps finally have an all-star caliber player in Gay. Who IMO is the best player we've had since VC. And now you all want him gone? WTF.

    I say stand pat. Build the team around JV, Gay and DeRozan. Get to the playoffs. And add an IMPACT player at the free agent market in the offseason. That's how i would do it.
    Well if you trade Gay, you should trade Lowry too. It makes the team worse in the short term, so the chance of getting into the top five slots goes way up. Plus the return of Lowry + Gay would naturally be higher than the return of just Rudy Gay, so you're setting yourself up better for the future at the same time. If you're going to dismantle, there's no sense in doing it half way.

    The other problem I see with your plan is how the Raptors will be able to add an impact free agent next summer when they stand to have almost 0 cap room if the existing core is retained.

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    Quote FoxMachine wrote: View Post
    Gay is not an allstar player and he wont be one this year.. the guy has no discipline or will to get better nor is he eager to learn..
    This isn't the case at all. Gay is clearly a player with a strong work ethic and a desire to improve. If he has a problem, he has the Dwight Howard problem: Dwight Howard can't shoot free throws, so he spends every summer trying to improve his free throw technique, but over the course of the season the incredible pressure he's under means he can't concentrate on every single thing and he relapses on free throws, reverting back to his old, bad habits.

    Rudy is much the same, except instead of "free throws" insert "shot selection."

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    How do you know that? because of his actions and interviews?? come on.

    Btw, if the Raps 'blow up' the team or 'tank' and finish with the worst record in the league. There is NO guarantee that they're going to get the 1st overall pick.
    Quote FoxMachine wrote: View Post
    id say that's the best indicator we have to go on.. and I don't care about the top pick.. there are a lot of great young players coming up, I care about talent that can grow with JV and cheap assets with "potential"
    And you know, the lack of any significant improvements or additions to his game since he came into the league 7 years ago. Gay's not a bad player, but he's not really an all-star, nor is he worth his contract.

    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Ok, let's say the Raps trade Gay and end up having a top 6-8 pick. The guys that are projected to get drafted in that area according to nbadraft.net are Robinson, Selden, Harrison, Embriid. Are any of these guys going to be better than Gay? i would say no.

    As for blowing up the team to have a chance at Wiggins, lol its not gonna happen. UNLESS the Raps get off to another slow start like they did last year. Which is just not gonna happen. This team is too talented for that to happen again.

    Finally, you guys realize that there are other ways to rebuild or re-tool a team other than drafting right??

    One more thing, the Raps finally have an all-star caliber player in Gay. Who IMO is the best player we've had since VC. And now you all want him gone? WTF.

    I say stand pat. Build the team around JV, Gay and DeRozan. Get to the playoffs. And add an IMPACT player at the free agent market in the offseason. That's how i would do it.
    As for this, this is ridiculous. Yes, you heard me, ridiculous. You're basically suggesting that the 6-8 pick in what looks like an extremely strong draft could never be better than a guy who was the 8th pick in a pretty weak draft. Gay is NOT that good a player. I would say there's a fairly decent chance to get as good or better a player. Also possible to strike out, but it's really not crazy to think any top 10 pick could be better than Gay.

    I do agree that it makes no sense to rush into the tank, that it should depend on how the season progresses in the early going. But if things aren't going well, trading Gay should be the first move they make in order to "tank". There's no easy way to build a team with him around. They can't be free agent players for awhile if he sticks around. They also lack big trading chips.

    I'm also ok with them keeping the team together through the season if they look headed for the playoffs. It would be good for Jonas' development, and anyone else who looks worth keeping. But I still think any team they build around Jonas probably should look quite different from the current roster. I don't think it's impossible to keep Gay around and build, but I do think he's more of an obstacle to building properly than a piece toward doing so. And I thought that since before they traded for him.

    *Finally, an issue of vocabulary....I see Gay referred to as an all-star caliber player quite frequently. He is maybe an all-star caliber talent, but an all-star caliber player is one who actually makes an all-star game. And that is one of the problems with Gay....It's never good for a guy to fail to make the most of his talent...and extra bad if/when such a player is supposed to be the best on the team.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu Oct 10th, 2013 at 12:50 PM.

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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Decimate? Obliterate? Annihilate?
    Why yes Axel, these all work quite nicely, lets do these... hahah

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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Decimate? Obliterate? Annihilate?
    I vote for decimate. I picture a fuckin nuke going off when I hear it.
    "You clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in: I am not in danger, Skyler. I am the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot, and you think that of me? No! I am the one who knocks!"

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