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Thread: Buycks, Stone or Kabongo?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Remember Alvin Williams?
    Loved Boogie, but he was an underrated point guard.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Do we even need him to be a "point guard"? He would be our 3rd string ball handler (at best unless someone is moved). But having a versatile winger, who can guard 3 positions and bring the ball up as either the primary or secondary guard, is a good option to have. Versatility is the new height in the NBA. Teams would rather have a smaller versatile player than a tall one trick pony (unless that trick is 3PT shooting)
    With three PGs already on the roster, you're right, we don't need Stone to be a floor general/distributor. I suppose what I'm asking/suggesting in a round-about way is, why is Stone even considered a PG instead of a SG/SF?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    With three PGs already on the roster, you're right, we don't need Stone to be a floor general/distributor. I suppose what I'm asking/suggesting in a round-about way is, why is Stone even considered a PG instead of a SG/SF?
    Who says he isn't a PG?

    His stats say different: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...ne-6357/stats/

    Also he is coming off knee injury. He has not shown much of yet but from the media reports he is getting better/stronger/explosive.
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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Who says he isn't a PG?
    Nobody. We just haven't seen what PG skills he has yet.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Nobody. We just haven't seen what PG skills he has yet.
    Fair enough.

    I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt based on his previous stats at all levels (minus Denver. 28 minutes total) and return from injury.

    The other consideration is what Casey is trying to run offensively. Looking at Lowry I think how the *&*$ did this happen? Where did your ability to run a team go?
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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  6. #26
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Do we even need him to be a "point guard"? He would be our 3rd string ball handler (at best unless someone is moved). But having a versatile winger, who can guard 3 positions and bring the ball up as either the primary or secondary guard, is a good option to have. Versatility is the new height in the NBA. Teams would rather have a smaller versatile player than a tall one trick pony (unless that trick is 3PT shooting)
    Take into consideration that Kyle Lowry tends to miss a lot of games due to injuries. Our 3rd string PG is likeley to see more minutes than 3rd stringers on most other teams. We're already a very poor team as far as assists go, so you definetely need someone with "point guard" skills.

  7. #27
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Kabongo evidently came out too early. He's cookie doe. Somebody gave him bad advice. Does anybody see him heading overseas for a couple years? I think playing over there in their system would serve him well.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Kabongo evidently came out too early. He's cookie doe. Somebody gave him bad advice. Does anybody see him heading overseas for a couple years? I think playing over there in their system would serve him well.
    I wouldn't be against sending him to Erie.
    I don't think there is any denying his talent, just a matter of getting his confidence back up, and getting him into a slightly forgiving system.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Nobody. We just haven't seen what PG skills he has yet.
    True, but if there is one person in the league that has scouted this guy the most, I'd be m money on MU. He knew what he was getting from his time in Denver, and I'd put more stock into his opinion on Stone than anyone else on this roster.

    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Take into consideration that Kyle Lowry tends to miss a lot of games due to injuries. Our 3rd string PG is likeley to see more minutes than 3rd stringers on most other teams. We're already a very poor team as far as assists go, so you definetely need someone with "point guard" skills.
    3rd at best, I'm assuming they keep Augustin, Buycks and Stone. At that point, Stone isn't even the back-ups back-up at point, but rather a versatile fill-in anywhere in the back-court, that can have a role as a PG duo on the court (team him with Buycks for stretches).

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    True, but if there is one person in the league that has scouted this guy the most, I'd be m money on MU. He knew what he was getting from his time in Denver, and I'd put more stock into his opinion on Stone than anyone else on this roster.



    3rd at best, I'm assuming they keep Augustin, Buycks and Stone. At that point, Stone isn't even the back-ups back-up at point, but rather a versatile fill-in anywhere in the back-court, that can have a role as a PG duo on the court (team him with Buycks for stretches).
    IF we kept Stone, I would only want to see him on the floor with another back up PG to give us an extra ball handler on the floor when Lowry isn't there. Way too many times last year other teams would force the ball out of Lowry's hands and DeMar and Fields would look at each other like "what do you expect me to do with the ball...dribble?" It was moments like that which put the balls in the hands of Alan Anderson, and well I'm not hating on AA, but we know how that turned out. This year if the ball gets forced out of Lowry's hands then Gay can be the secondary creator. The second unit however still lacks ball handlers that can create, so I like Casey playing two PG's at a time in the second unit.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    I decided to do a bit of research on our new PG Julyan Stone. If follow draftexpress than you all know about the article he has every year called"Just by the number" article. An article that breaks down all the players in that draft class by numbers and position. Our newest raptor didn't do so well in the scoring departments.

    He was last out off all the guard in the 2011 draft in Point Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted with 9.1. Came last at Three Pointers Attempted Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted with 1.6. Third from the bottom in Three Pointers Attempts Per Field Goal Attempts with 0.25. Seventh from the bottom in Free Throws Attempted Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted with 4.2. One of his positive the offensive side was his Free Throw Attempts Per Possession. Where tied for first with Kyrie Irving 0.48. In True Shooting Percentage he was in the middle of the pack with 56%

    He did extremely well in categories that matter to be a PG!

    He was top 10 in Assist Per-40 Minutes Adjusted with 5.6. He was second last in Turnovers Per-40 Minutes Adjusted with 2.0. Which is just AWESOME! I know all you die hard Calderon fans are going to love this. He was first in Assist to Turnover Ratio with 2.83. The good just keep coming. As he was first in the probably the most important stat. The "Pure Point Rating" where he had 4.41. Where other than Darius Morris he was heads and shoulders above every other guard in the 2011 draft.

    DEFENCE

    Apparently this is what he is known for. The stats don't point the contrary. He was first in Rebounds Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted with 8.0. Middle of the pack when it comes too Steal Per-40 Minutes Adjusted with 1.6. He was top 5 in Blocks Per-40 Minutes Adjusted with 0.6.


    So what have we learned? Well i learned that he will not lead our bench in scoring. That opposing players will go under every screen with him. We've also learned that Juju is a defensive point guard that would rather get others good shots than himself. That he also does it very efficiently. I think I might be more excited to see what he brings to summer league more that our own rooks.
    @Chr1st1anL

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  13. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    Kabongo just isn't good enough for NBA, best of luck to him in the D-league, Europe or China. But Buycks, Augustine, Stone is fine for your back-ups..
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  14. #33
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I decided to do a bit of research on our new PG Julyan Stone. If follow draftexpress than you all know about the article he has every year called"Just by the number" article. An article that breaks down all the players in that draft class by numbers and position. Our newest raptor didn't do so well in the scoring departments.

    He was last out off all the guard in the 2011 draft in Point Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted with 9.1. Came last at Three Pointers Attempted Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted with 1.6. Third from the bottom in Three Pointers Attempts Per Field Goal Attempts with 0.25. Seventh from the bottom in Free Throws Attempted Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted with 4.2. One of his positive the offensive side was his Free Throw Attempts Per Possession. Where tied for first with Kyrie Irving 0.48. In True Shooting Percentage he was in the middle of the pack with 56%

    He did extremely well in categories that matter to be a PG!

    He was top 10 in Assist Per-40 Minutes Adjusted with 5.6. He was second last in Turnovers Per-40 Minutes Adjusted with 2.0. Which is just AWESOME! I know all you die hard Calderon fans are going to love this. He was first in Assist to Turnover Ratio with 2.83. The good just keep coming. As he was first in the probably the most important stat. The "Pure Point Rating" where he had 4.41. Where other than Darius Morris he was heads and shoulders above every other guard in the 2011 draft.

    DEFENCE

    Apparently this is what he is known for. The stats don't point the contrary. He was first in Rebounds Per-40 Minutes Pace Adjusted with 8.0. Middle of the pack when it comes too Steal Per-40 Minutes Adjusted with 1.6. He was top 5 in Blocks Per-40 Minutes Adjusted with 0.6.


    So what have we learned? Well i learned that he will not lead our bench in scoring. That opposing players will go under every screen with him. We've also learned that Juju is a defensive point guard that would rather get others good shots than himself. That he also does it very efficiently. I think I might be more excited to see what he brings to summer league more that our own rooks.
    So this was something I posted right before he failed his physical. Didn't think it got a lot of attention because of the failed physical and he was written off.
    @Chr1st1anL

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    So this was something I posted right before he failed his physical. Didn't think it got a lot of attention because of the failed physical and he was written off.
    That explains the summer league comment at the end.

    nice piece.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Nobody. We just haven't seen what PG skills he has yet.
    I feel he loses a lot of his value if your not using him at PG. You could always use him as Tony Allen player but, roles like that don't don't bring much unless if his starting.
    @Chr1st1anL

  17. #36
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I feel he loses a lot of his value if your not using him at PG. You could always use him as Tony Allen player but, roles like that don't don't bring much unless if his starting.
    Considering we're talking about a 4th string player, who much "value" does he really have?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Considering we're talking about a 4th string player, who much "value" does he really have?
    "Value" might be the wrong word. Takes away from his skill set. Just like telling Klow to be just a pass first PG.
    @Chr1st1anL

  19. #38
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    "Value" might be the wrong word. Takes away from his skill set. Just like telling Klow to be just a pass first PG.
    Well, I sort of agree, but also disagree. You want to utilize his point skills, but that doesn't mean you have to play him at PG. There are plenty of guys with good passing skills who can be used at other positions, and then it just depends on who else is on the floor with them.

    The classic example is Diaw, who was stupidly used positionally as a PG very early on in his career, but as soon as he was traded to PHX, they moved him to the forward spot and used him as a point forward and initiator from the post. Even though at many times they also had Nash, the best passing PG in the league, on the floor with him.

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  21. #39
    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Well, I sort of agree, but also disagree. You want to utilize his point skills, but that doesn't mean you have to play him at PG. There are plenty of guys with good passing skills who can be used at other positions, and then it just depends on who else is on the floor with them.

    The classic example is Diaw, who was stupidly used positionally as a PG very early on in his career, but as soon as he was traded to PHX, they moved him to the forward spot and used him as a point forward and initiator from the post. Even though at many times they also had Nash, the best passing PG in the league, on the floor with him.
    Never knew that guy had Lebron type of play, didn't believed till checked by myself.
    #FREE

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    Default Buychs for backup at 1 AND 2.

    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    If Stone winds up making the team as the 15th man on the roster, that's suddenly a lot of competition for the 3rd and possibly backup PG spot(s). Given that they'd all likely be on 1-year contracts, I like that approach. It also speaks more to rebuilding than competing to me, but that's another conversation (although it would be intersting to see how the PG spot is managed if the team starts the season on fire and looks to be a sure-fire playoff team).

    Gun to my head, I probably go with Stone, thinking more for the long-term. I'd rather give him time to develop ahead of both Buycks and Augustin, given his age, size and defensive prowess.
    This morning oct 16 coach casey made a significant statement about the point guard situation. He said with Buycks good 4 years at Marquette his speed scoring ball distribution, and defence not to mention his LEAGUE MVP in Europe plus 23 pts per game in the Summer league made him BETTER than anyone available in the last half of the first and all of the second round of last years NBA draft!! Steve Fisher

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