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Not just J.V on this team!

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  • #16
    Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If DD was a better talent, Toronto would be a better team, because he would have made players around him better.

    It is all about talent.
    Thats an unfair statement.... he is a pretty dam good talent and its not like his four years hes been on a good team... who exactly was he playing with to help him out? If you replaced JV for DeMAr those 4 years the teams record would be the same. JV is a great player but I find it funny how our 2nd best asset behind JV is sold short time and time again. JV is great and very rare talent but hes not goddam Jesus.

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    • #17
      Makes sense to put the extra attention on JV. He's the one guy I feel comfortable saying will still be here when the team makes a turn around and becomes competitive. Heck it makes sense to start building around him now if you think he can truly be an all star one day.

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      • #18
        Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
        Thats an unfair statement.... he is a pretty dam good talent and its not like his four years hes been on a good team... who exactly was he playing with to help him out? If you replaced JV for DeMAr those 4 years the teams record would be the same. JV is a great player but I find it funny how our 2nd best asset behind JV is sold short time and time again. JV is great and very rare talent but hes not goddam Jesus.
        It is actually a very fair statement and could be applied to any of the proclaimed corner stones BC touted for the last 5-6 years.

        As for your claim regarding replace DeMar for JV, well, that is some good hubris right there. The funny thing is exactly what happened with DeMar is exactly what people, myself included, hope for JV. DeMar was forced in to the starting lineup as a rookie. From his 2nd year onwards DD was force fed shots, minutes, and opportunities - despite inefficiency and lack of contribution on the defensive end. He has been given every single opportunity to display what he can do on the NBA stage.

        We know DD is not a rare talent in the NBA. No one, myself included, is implying he is useless or worthless.... but he is hardly exceptional or even well above average either.

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        • #19
          Quirk wrote: View Post
          However Amir, Tyler, Quincy, Landry, and Kyle are all productive players
          Oh geez. It's stuff like this that reminds me we're Toronto fans.

          There's two names on that list that deserve the moniker of "productive player," Kyle and Amir. Of those two, both would basically be high-quality sixth men on any serious contender rather than starters. Kyle has the potential to be a proper starter but has never lived up to it. Amir is a brilliant sixth man we're playing as a starter because we don't have anybody better. And then... oy.

          Tyler does two things really well: he hustles for the ball and he draws fouls. That is it. I think his contract this year is decent, but he's not a starter-quality PF, he's not even sixth man level; he's a fine fourth big and foul-drawing specialist. Three million a year is about what he should be making. I know in Toronto "paying people what they would get anywhere else" is KIND OF LIKE a bargain, but really it's not.

          Landry is, right now, a slightly slower version of a playmaking no-shot point guard. Because he has no shot, the other team doesn't bother guarding him and he actually makes life harder for his teammates on the floor as a result because now they're getting doubled up when he has the ball, so he's not going to create well off the dribble; he works best as being that guy who's the hinge in a double-pass situation, and Landry's very smart and knows how to set those up. Again: a specialist. At three million Landry would be a great ninth or tenth guy for a contender. But he's, what, our seventh?

          And Quincy is a fun young rook who takes too many jumpers and rebounds energetically, which is to say: he's like every other second-rounder young big playing in the league today. He is eminently replaceable.

          We don't have a quality bench here. We just don't. Quality bench guys on serious teams are guys like Jarrett Jack, Jamal Crawford, Carl Landry, Jared Dudley, that level.

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          • #20
            akashsingh wrote: View Post
            I would take Ed over DD 10 times out of 10. We won those games because we had depth at PF and PG.

            fyi http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/1...orlando-magic/
            Ed?
            Ed Davis??

            Oh Fuck, this is good, please elaborate on this one, keeping in mind Ed Davis is an average at best, undersized, borderline starter in the NBA.

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            • #21
              I never understood the adoring love for Davis either.

              I think it's simply a direct result of not having a quality big man in the lineup since Bosh left.

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              • #22
                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                No offense to Ross and Quicy but they are a dime a dozen.

                DeRozan is a quarter a dozen.

                Young, 7', athletic, determined, TWO-WAY centres with a motor are a rarity among rarities.
                By TWO-WAY, do you mean good on both offense and defense?

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                • #23
                  Ed Davis had promise, just like Terrance Ross. People fall in love with Promise in this sport. I think it's the blind illogical component of the game we love.

                  From a business and competition perspective, they are all chess pieces.

                  Respect their talent and them as people yes, but chess pieces to the organization none the less.

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                  • #24
                    TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                    By TWO-WAY, do you mean good on both offense and defense?
                    Yes. Both sides of the ball.

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                    • #25
                      drunkmunky wrote: View Post
                      Ed Davis had promise, just like Terrance Ross. People fall in love with Promise in this sport. I think it's the blind illogical component of the game we love.

                      From a business and competition perspective, they are all chess pieces.

                      Respect their talent and them as people yes, but chess pieces to the organization none the less.
                      Boom! This is the quote of the day if there ever was one.

                      Raptor fans for years have been buying, selling, and collecting hope and potential. I know I've been ridiculously guilty of it.

                      Everyone assumes that the potential will be reached when there are so many factors (physical, mental, emotional, drive/desire, situation, chemistry) that can, and most likely do, ensure the potential is never reached.

                      There comes a point in time when the potential is likely never to be reached. There are always exceptions (trades, change in role, new coach, etc) but I'm of the firm belief you know what you have for the over whelming majority by the end of year 2.

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                      • #26
                        Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        There comes a point in time when the potential is likely never to be reached. There are always exceptions (trades, change in role, new coach, etc) but I'm of the firm belief you know what you have for the over whelming majority by the end of year 2.
                        Which makes this a very important year for our friend, Terrence Ross.

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                        • #27
                          Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
                          Thats an unfair statement.... he is a pretty dam good talent and its not like his four years hes been on a good team... who exactly was he playing with to help him out? If you replaced JV for DeMAr those 4 years the teams record would be the same. JV is a great player but I find it funny how our 2nd best asset behind JV is sold short time and time again. JV is great and very rare talent but hes not goddam Jesus.
                          Thank you!

                          The lovefest for JV and the hate for Demar is ridiculous in these forums. AND its the same people saying the same things, coming up with the dumbest trade scenarios. JV hasn't proved very much in the league and he's supposed to be our next saviour!!??? Demar is actually shown improvement and he gets no love....These forums give me good laughs sometimes.

                          FYI - I REALLY like JV. I think he has the "potential" to be a very good centre in this league. BUT he hasn't done shit in the regular season to show me that he'll even be an all-star. Yet, everyone here is acting like he's jesus. I'm not even sure if he's going to be a better player than Andre Drummond! I want him to be a better player, but I dont know if he will be. Right now, I think Andre Drummond is looking like the more dominant player.

                          That being said - JV is incredibly young and raw, so i'm hoping that he turns out to be a star.

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                          • #28
                            Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                            Makes sense to put the extra attention on JV. He's the one guy I feel comfortable saying will still be here when the team makes a turn around and becomes competitive. Heck it makes sense to start building around him now if you think he can truly be an all star one day.
                            Yea - Just like "we" thought Andrea Bargnani could be an all star one day.

                            I say you let him play hard and see how good he becomes. I think its foolish to build around someone who isn't already an all-star or well on their way to become one. Is JV going to be a better player than Andre Drummond or Derrick Favors or Enes Kanter?

                            I am done rebuilding. You get players to come here because Toronto is simply one of the best cities in the WORLD. PERIOD. you start a winning atmosphere and the players will come! You rebuild and JV will get blown apart on a crappy team.

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                            • #29
                              Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
                              Thats an unfair statement.... he is a pretty dam good talent and its not like his four years hes been on a good team... who exactly was he playing with to help him out? If you replaced JV for DeMAr those 4 years the teams record would be the same. JV is a great player but I find it funny how our 2nd best asset behind JV is sold short time and time again. JV is great and very rare talent but hes not goddam Jesus.
                              Thank you very much for posting that. Don't get me wrong, love JV's game a lot. However, I wish I could go back to draft night and see all the people who were giving B.C. shit for picking this kid who no one has every heard of and was not going to play for an entire year. I remember saying that I liked k. Leonard, who Spurs picked and doing very well instead. Anyways, JV is good. But there are other players who are part of this team and it's not fair that all this attention is being given to JV. DD was suppose to be the next V.C. however we did not have the surrounding players that V.C. had.

                              Once again, thank you for the post!

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                              • #30
                                Nilanka wrote: View Post
                                Which makes this a very important year for our friend, Terrence Ross.
                                So why exactly did we give Barg all these years to try and get better and all of the sudden it's not OK for guys like Ross or even DD to have a fair shake at getting support?

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