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Thread: Not just J.V on this team!

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I never understood the adoring love for Davis either.

    I think it's simply a direct result of not having a quality big man in the lineup since Bosh left.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    No offense to Ross and Quicy but they are a dime a dozen.

    DeRozan is a quarter a dozen.

    Young, 7', athletic, determined, TWO-WAY centres with a motor are a rarity among rarities.
    By TWO-WAY, do you mean good on both offense and defense?

  3. #23
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    Ed Davis had promise, just like Terrance Ross. People fall in love with Promise in this sport. I think it's the blind illogical component of the game we love.

    From a business and competition perspective, they are all chess pieces.

    Respect their talent and them as people yes, but chess pieces to the organization none the less.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    By TWO-WAY, do you mean good on both offense and defense?
    Yes. Both sides of the ball.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote drunkmunky wrote: View Post
    Ed Davis had promise, just like Terrance Ross. People fall in love with Promise in this sport. I think it's the blind illogical component of the game we love.

    From a business and competition perspective, they are all chess pieces.

    Respect their talent and them as people yes, but chess pieces to the organization none the less.
    Boom! This is the quote of the day if there ever was one.

    Raptor fans for years have been buying, selling, and collecting hope and potential. I know I've been ridiculously guilty of it.

    Everyone assumes that the potential will be reached when there are so many factors (physical, mental, emotional, drive/desire, situation, chemistry) that can, and most likely do, ensure the potential is never reached.

    There comes a point in time when the potential is likely never to be reached. There are always exceptions (trades, change in role, new coach, etc) but I'm of the firm belief you know what you have for the over whelming majority by the end of year 2.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    There comes a point in time when the potential is likely never to be reached. There are always exceptions (trades, change in role, new coach, etc) but I'm of the firm belief you know what you have for the over whelming majority by the end of year 2.
    Which makes this a very important year for our friend, Terrence Ross.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  8. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Thats an unfair statement.... he is a pretty dam good talent and its not like his four years hes been on a good team... who exactly was he playing with to help him out? If you replaced JV for DeMAr those 4 years the teams record would be the same. JV is a great player but I find it funny how our 2nd best asset behind JV is sold short time and time again. JV is great and very rare talent but hes not goddam Jesus.
    Thank you!

    The lovefest for JV and the hate for Demar is ridiculous in these forums. AND its the same people saying the same things, coming up with the dumbest trade scenarios. JV hasn't proved very much in the league and he's supposed to be our next saviour!!??? Demar is actually shown improvement and he gets no love....These forums give me good laughs sometimes.

    FYI - I REALLY like JV. I think he has the "potential" to be a very good centre in this league. BUT he hasn't done shit in the regular season to show me that he'll even be an all-star. Yet, everyone here is acting like he's jesus. I'm not even sure if he's going to be a better player than Andre Drummond! I want him to be a better player, but I dont know if he will be. Right now, I think Andre Drummond is looking like the more dominant player.

    That being said - JV is incredibly young and raw, so i'm hoping that he turns out to be a star.

  9. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Makes sense to put the extra attention on JV. He's the one guy I feel comfortable saying will still be here when the team makes a turn around and becomes competitive. Heck it makes sense to start building around him now if you think he can truly be an all star one day.
    Yea - Just like "we" thought Andrea Bargnani could be an all star one day.

    I say you let him play hard and see how good he becomes. I think its foolish to build around someone who isn't already an all-star or well on their way to become one. Is JV going to be a better player than Andre Drummond or Derrick Favors or Enes Kanter?

    I am done rebuilding. You get players to come here because Toronto is simply one of the best cities in the WORLD. PERIOD. you start a winning atmosphere and the players will come! You rebuild and JV will get blown apart on a crappy team.

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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Thats an unfair statement.... he is a pretty dam good talent and its not like his four years hes been on a good team... who exactly was he playing with to help him out? If you replaced JV for DeMAr those 4 years the teams record would be the same. JV is a great player but I find it funny how our 2nd best asset behind JV is sold short time and time again. JV is great and very rare talent but hes not goddam Jesus.
    Thank you very much for posting that. Don't get me wrong, love JV's game a lot. However, I wish I could go back to draft night and see all the people who were giving B.C. shit for picking this kid who no one has every heard of and was not going to play for an entire year. I remember saying that I liked k. Leonard, who Spurs picked and doing very well instead. Anyways, JV is good. But there are other players who are part of this team and it's not fair that all this attention is being given to JV. DD was suppose to be the next V.C. however we did not have the surrounding players that V.C. had.

    Once again, thank you for the post!

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  12. #30
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Which makes this a very important year for our friend, Terrence Ross.
    So why exactly did we give Barg all these years to try and get better and all of the sudden it's not OK for guys like Ross or even DD to have a fair shake at getting support?

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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    I would take Ed over DD 10 times out of 10. We won those games because we had depth at PF and PG.

    fyi http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/1...orlando-magic/
    Hahahahaha.....This is a joke right? Your taking one pre-season game to prove your point? FYI - I really liked ED and took a lot of heat from many (you know who you are) for saying i wouldnt include him in a trade for Rudy Gay.....but come one dude!

  14. #32
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
    So why exactly did we give Barg all these years to try and get better and all of the sudden it's not OK for guys like Ross or even DD to have a fair shake at getting support?
    Giving anyone else as long as Bargnani for the sake of "fairness" is exactly how not to build a basketball team.

    Besides, I had Bargnani written off in 2009.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  16. #33
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Thank you!

    The lovefest for JV and the hate for Demar is ridiculous in these forums. AND its the same people saying the same things, coming up with the dumbest trade scenarios. JV hasn't proved very much in the league and he's supposed to be our next saviour!!??? Demar is actually shown improvement and he gets no love....These forums give me good laughs sometimes.

    FYI - I REALLY like JV. I think he has the "potential" to be a very good centre in this league. BUT he hasn't done shit in the regular season to show me that he'll even be an all-star. Yet, everyone here is acting like he's jesus. I'm not even sure if he's going to be a better player than Andre Drummond! I want him to be a better player, but I dont know if he will be. Right now, I think Andre Drummond is looking like the more dominant player.

    That being said - JV is incredibly young and raw, so i'm hoping that he turns out to be a star.
    See, that's my point exactly. It's all about the system. Detroit is giving Drummond the chance to play and make mistakes. He collected 15 boards last night and is a Double Double machine going forward. JV, like Casey stated several times, will not have plays designed for him. Therefor, Drummond will always be ahead of him until JV gets more touches!

  17. #34
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Yea - Just like "we" thought Andrea Bargnani could be an all star one day.

    I say you let him play hard and see how good he becomes. I think its foolish to build around someone who isn't already an all-star or well on their way to become one. Is JV going to be a better player than Andre Drummond or Derrick Favors or Enes Kanter?

    I am done rebuilding. You get players to come here because Toronto is simply one of the best cities in the WORLD. PERIOD. you start a winning atmosphere and the players will come! You rebuild and JV will get blown apart on a crappy team.
    +1

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Giving anyone else as long as Bargnani for the sake of "fairness" is exactly how not to build a basketball team.

    Besides, I had Bargnani written off in 2009.
    Not saying to give anyone the same amount of time as Barg. I was simply stating that Ross is only on his second year. And I actually thought B.C. was going to trade DD and that's why he selected Ross. If, like he said so many times, you take the best player on the board, why not pick Drummond. Everyone knew he had potential. It was just his motor that people questioned. He has proven many people wrong in questioning him motor!

  19. #36
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    Matt52 wrote:

    "There comes a point in time when the potential is likely never to be reached. There are always exceptions (trades, change in role, new coach, etc) but I'm of the firm belief you know what you have for the over whelming majority by the end of year 2."

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Which makes this a very important year for our friend, Terrence Ross.
    AND don't forget our friend JV aka our saviour. You can't have it both ways.....OR do you already know what we have with JV? Will he be an All-Star in the near future? Can you tell by year 2?

  20. #37
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Thank you!

    The lovefest for JV and the hate for Demar is ridiculous in these forums. AND its the same people saying the same things, coming up with the dumbest trade scenarios. JV hasn't proved very much in the league and he's supposed to be our next saviour!!??? Demar is actually shown improvement and he gets no love....These forums give me good laughs sometimes.

    FYI - I REALLY like JV. I think he has the "potential" to be a very good centre in this league. BUT he hasn't done shit in the regular season to show me that he'll even be an all-star. Yet, everyone here is acting like he's jesus. I'm not even sure if he's going to be a better player than Andre Drummond! I want him to be a better player, but I dont know if he will be. Right now, I think Andre Drummond is looking like the more dominant player.

    That being said - JV is incredibly young and raw, so i'm hoping that he turns out to be a star.
    Who is hating DeMar? I am certainly not. The guy has 4 years in the league. Everybody and their dog knows what he can do, his strengths and weaknesses. Might he continue to improve? Maybe but he is already 24 so combined with 3 years of endless touches and opportunity history is not on his side. True star talent is evident almost immediately. You don't get guys coming out of nowhere 5 years in to become all-star/franchise talent.

    JV has not proven much in the league - that is a given. However he certainly did show more than DD's rookie year while adapting to a new continent and language. Relative to other notable big men rookie seasons, JV's is on par or much better (go play with Basketball-Reference.com search engine). Then looking at his resume he is MVP at Euro and World junior championships at 16, 17, 18, 19 age groups. He was playing against grown men - and holding his own - at 17. He follows all that up Summer League MVP. It should be noted that for once all the JV hype is not coming just Toronto media and fans, he is getting A LOT of attention south of the border.

    What I want to see is JV get the same opportunity DD was given. Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be happening and it is a crying shame because JV's talent, physical attributes, and skills is incredible, quite frankly. That is the difference between JV and DD - you can go replace DD tomorrow with any number of free agents or draft prospects; guys like JV are what teams blow up their roster hoping to draft. Toronto, should they decide to blow things up, are already one step ahead of the game.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  21. #38
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Matt52 wrote:

    "There comes a point in time when the potential is likely never to be reached. There are always exceptions (trades, change in role, new coach, etc) but I'm of the firm belief you know what you have for the over whelming majority by the end of year 2."



    AND don't forget our friend JV aka our saviour. You can't have it both ways.....OR do you already know what we have with JV? Will he be an All-Star in the near future? Can you tell by year 2?
    JV doesn't need to become a savior (but if he does, that's great). He's already shown to be a serviceable member of the rotation. Unfortunately, we can't say the same for Ross or Acy yet.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
    See, that's my point exactly. It's all about the system. Detroit is giving Drummond the chance to play and make mistakes. He collected 15 boards last night and is a Double Double machine going forward. JV, like Casey stated several times, will not have plays designed for him. Therefor, Drummond will always be ahead of him until JV gets more touches!
    And this is why the Raptors will continue to be stuck in the mud if things unfold this way.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  23. #40
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Matt52 wrote:

    "There comes a point in time when the potential is likely never to be reached. There are always exceptions (trades, change in role, new coach, etc) but I'm of the firm belief you know what you have for the over whelming majority by the end of year 2."



    AND don't forget our friend JV aka our saviour. You can't have it both ways.....OR do you already know what we have with JV? Will he be an All-Star in the near future? Can you tell by year 2?
    There are certainly players that you can't predict after year 2, whether they will be legit NBA players or not, and while I personally feel Year 3 is the best indicator, I get Matt's point. Most players you can tell fairly early whether they got it or not.

    Also, if you read more closely, Matt said at the end of year 2 and I think it is fair to say that by April, we will all have a very good idea of what JV will be.
    Whatever you do, do it the best you can

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