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Thread: The Who Wants Rudy? Sweepstakes

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    Default The Who Wants Rudy? Sweepstakes

    So, we're well into the preseason now and we're starting to get a sense of how teams are really stacking up, where their holes are, et cetera. Every expert out there predicts a Rudy Gay trade - I personally think it only happens if our first 20 games or so are bad, but if they're bad, then all bets are off. So, based on other teams' preseasons so far, who's potentially hungry for Rudy if Masai decides to trade him?

    IMPORTANT: I am not advocating that we necessarily trade Rudy at this time. This thread is just about likely trade partners. Calm down.

    Washington - This was a dark horse candidate for me a couple months ago but they're starting to look more and more like a potential trade partner. A couple months ago, my thinking was as follows: 1.) they don't want to trade Emeka Okafor - who has to be in the trade to make the money work - because Emeka is central to their defense, and 2.) they have Otto Porter, Trevor Ariza and Martell Webster, that's not a Rudy Gay combined but that's not a bad SF unit.

    But now Okafor is injured and going to miss a chunk of the season, and Al Harrington is filling in reasonably capably at power forward alongside Nene. (I also think Washington probably considers signing Jason Collins as well since he's well-liked on the team and lockdown D is what Collins specializes in.) And looking at the Wizards' preseason so far - they're 1 and 4 - Ariza and Webster at SF are the gaping hole on this team; both are okay backups but neither one is a serious starting SF and the Wiz have been outplayed at small forward pretty much every single game.

    As for Otto Porter, he had a bad summer league and apparently didn't impress at training camp, and that's not good considering everybody back at draft time was figuring "Otto Porter is a starting SF, maybe not a great one, but decent and he'll be ready day one." If Porter is a project the Wiz are in trouble. Unless, of course, they trade for Rudy Gay. The Wiz are in win-now mode; both the fans and management want playoffs this year, even if it's only one-round-and-done.

    What can Washington offer for Rudy? Okafor, obviously. Probably one of either Glen Rice Jr. or Porter. And, of course, picks. Washington has all of theirs. In a Rudy trade they might look for an additional young big: Hansbrough or Acy would both be excellent trade sweeteners in this case.

    Charlotte. If Charlotte decides to go for it - and they're much better than they were last year, although I still don't think they're a playoff team even if they're .500 in the preseason so far - they need a better answer at small forward than Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Or, rather, 2013 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, who is the Michael Kidd-Gilchrist who can't shoot the ball worth a damn.

    Unlike Washington, Charlotte doesn't have a two-way liability on the court at small forward - MKG is a terrific defender with potential to become elite and he has good floor sense. But he can't shoot, and until he finds a jumper or learns to be a better cutter he's a project. If Charlotte decides to go for it based on a strong start (and let's be honest, it's Charlotte, this is eminently possible), they need to fix the hole at SF, because the rest of their starting five is solid with flashes of greatness (Al Jefferson, Kemba Walker, Gerald Henderson and the Zeller/McRoberts unit at power forward). And I think they might, because Michael Jordan is not a patient man.

    What can Charlotte offer for Rudy? Ben Gordon makes the money work so it becomes about what Charlotte adds to the trade. They have Detroit and Portland's first-round picks this year; they have Bismack Biyombo (whom they appear to be giving up on, and who may be reclaimable), and if they're looking to replace MKG they might as well consider him a trade chip. In a Rudy trade they'd probably look for another young shooting wing as well - Terrence Ross or Austin Daye might sweeten the pot here.

    Cleveland. Starting out 3-2 in the preseason so far Cleveland sure looks exciting, but the one thing that has been constant is the lack of a starting small forward. Earl Clark is playing like a backup SF forced into a starter role because that's what he is. The team's been experimenting with Anthony Bennett as an oversized three and Sergey Karasev as an undersized three and neither of those experiments is quite panning out (Bennett and Karasev are both good players, but Bennett seems to be more naturally an undersized power forward and Karasev seems much more comfortable at shooting guard, and their best play in the preseason has been when they have played to their strengths). Alonzo Gee wasn't a starter last season or at least should not have been. And so forth.

    Cleveland is even more seriously in win-now mode than Washington is: the Gilberts have declared war and laid out large for Jarrett Jack and Andrew Bynum, and Bynum is their big question mark of course. So is Anderson Varajao, really.

    What can Cleveland offer for Rudy? Bynum, if he doesn't pan out for them (the $12M contract is only half-guaranteed so basically they would trade him and we would immediately waive him and only take a $6m cap hit). If Bynum pans out and Varajao is injured, then they trade Varajao. If both Bynum and Varajao are healthy and playing, then A) I'm gonna go buy some lotto tickets because the laws of probability are out of whack, and B) the answer is probably something along the lines of Clark and Gee to help with the money plus some other pieces.

    In terms of "other pieces" - man, Cleveland has so many options for us it's kind of nuts. Bennett and Thompson are both very obvious trade targets for us - not just because they're Canadian (although that is a bonus) but because they're good. Karasev would be a nice bit of trade bait as well. The Cavs have all of their draft picks and a host of other picks to boot - a protected Sacramento first-rounder (meh), Memphis and Miami's first-rounders in 2015 (hmmm), Orlando's second-rounder this year (probably a 34th pick, not awful at all) and still more beyond those.

    In terms of what sweetens the deal for Cleveland: if they're trading Bynum or Varajao they'll want a cheap quality big (Hansbrough or Acy - maybe even Aaron Gray). They might also want Steve Novak's shooting.

    Milwaukee. I've consistently maintained that despite everybody saying Milwaukee is a natural trade partner for Rudy that they really aren't, and I maintain that position. Yes, Caron Butler is not a starting quality SF, but he wants to play in Milwaukee (how many people can say that?) and the Bucks don't want him to be their starting SF anyway, they want him to be their backup veteran grooming the kids; they want John Henson to develop into a starting power forward and then slot Ersan Ilyasova at SF to play big-ball, or they want Giannis Antetokounmpo to be ready faster than anybody expected and install him at SF, and the thing about these plans is that neither of them is totally far-fetched. It's far more likely that, if we trade anybody to Milwaukee, it's Kyle Lowry - Brandon Knight is not yet a starting PG in this league.

    But let's say neither happens and the Bucks get their itchy trigger finger like they always do (man, Tobias Harris for two months of JJ Redick, that was a good idea). So...

    What can Milwaukee offer for Rudy? Caron Butler plus Ekpe Udoh plus the Bucks' 2014 first-rounder is about it. Unless they go absolutely insane and offer us Giannis, which will not happen.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    I think, given that Detroit already made an offer, they should atleast be on this list by default.

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    I was high on porter last yeAr at beginning when a possible 15th pick. 3was way too high and his contract will be massive for rook. No interest in Washington.
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    The Bobcats are a good candidate. They have enough useless salary to make the money work and they have a big hole at small forward. They've already committed to trying to make the playoffs by signing Jefferson.

    Something like:

    Ben Gordon + Ramon Sessions (19 million in expirings)
    1st round draft pick
    2 second round draft picks

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    Rudy to Milwaukee is possible. However as from the previous mentioned Harris-Reddick trade, they might be wary of giving up draft picks or prospects for a guy likely or with ability to bolt after a couple of months.

    If Rudy is traded, rebuild is on the agenda. Charlotte is who I'd be looking at (btw Gordon for Gay works straight up plus picks).

    I would look at DeRozan and Lowry to Milwaukee. Giannis is definitely a guy I'd be angling for. Considering DeRozan is locked up for 3 seasons after this year along with a stretch 4 in Ilyasova and a rim protector in Sanders, they might just have interest in DeMar.

    Milwaukee is always in win now mode. They need a new arena. Would you trade a raw 18 year old for an established 24 year old under contract for 3 more seasons after this year entering his prime?

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=luupp6r

    Raps can throw Augustin in after December 15th and trade still works.
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    I like the idea of DeMar going to Milwaukee.. seems like a good fit, even though they just picked up Mayo.

    To expand on that thought you could try and move Gay to Phoenix (I still think its a good fit even though they are rebuilding).

    You can do it in two trades but:
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lrg7lcs

    Dragic, Gortat for Gay
    Lowry, DeRozan for Butler, Giannis

    ... with picks going to Toronto (not sure if Phoenix would give up a pick for that haul, but Milwaukee should).

    Phoenix has Bledsoe as their PG of the future. Gortat is an expiring and was unhappy in Phoenix (Toronto can then flip him at the deadline to a contender for another pick).

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    I doubt that Milwaukee is interested in DeMar -- they made a lot of roster changes to upgrade their 3pt shooting this offseason and they hired a coach whose system is based around good 3pt shooting. Trading for DeMar would be a 180 degree turnaround.

    I like Lowry there, though. But yeah, they might be wary of rentals.

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    Any thoughts on a Western team that could want Rudy? Some of the teams may have a hard time putting together a deal, but there are definitely teams that might consider it, where he'd be an upgrade at least in terms of talent.

    Sacramento, Dallas, Denver, LA Lakers, Minnesota and even Phoenix are all teams that I could see having some level of interest (and for different reasons). Not all of them could get a deal done straight up, but that doesn't make it impossible that something happens. He'd either be an upgrade or add a needed dimension to pretty much all those teams.

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    To Orlando for Tobias Harris and andrew nicholson
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    I doubt that Milwaukee is interested in DeMar -- they made a lot of roster changes to upgrade their 3pt shooting this offseason and they hired a coach whose system is based around good 3pt shooting. Trading for DeMar would be a 180 degree turnaround.

    I like Lowry there, though. But yeah, they might be wary of rentals.
    Ilyasova is the key as a stretch 4.

    The package I put up also would have good 3pt in Lowry and augustin at backup is a better 3 than ridnour.

    And maybe demar did add a three point shot this summer.
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    "So, we're well into the preseason now and we're starting to get a sense of how teams are really stacking up, where their holes are, et cetera."

    Seriously? Is this your first pre-season? Whatever opinions one has about potential trade partners, nothing about the preseason results should have anything to do with it. This discussion could have taken place before training camp even started,,,,,,, and dare I say DID.

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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    "So, we're well into the preseason now and we're starting to get a sense of how teams are really stacking up, where their holes are, et cetera."

    Seriously? Is this your first pre-season? Whatever opinions one has about potential trade partners, nothing about the preseason results should have anything to do with it. This discussion could have taken place before training camp even started,,,,,,, and dare I say DID.
    Why are you so aggressive?

    chill out, bro.

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    I continue to be amazed by the willingness of some fans to trade Raptors talent for scraps so this team can be in the lottery every season.

    If Gay becomes a free agent, he'll be in high demand and get another huge contract. Lakers will take Gay if LBJ or Melo aren't available.
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    Quote brothersteve wrote: View Post
    I continue to be amazed by the willingness of some fans to trade Raptors talent for scraps so this team can be in the lottery every season.

    If Gay becomes a free agent, he'll be in high demand and get another huge contract. Lakers will take Gay if LBJ or Melo aren't available.
    ...so what you're saying is we shouldn't trade Rudy so we can lose him to free agency?

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote brothersteve wrote: View Post
    I continue to be amazed by the willingness of some fans to trade Raptors talent for scraps so this team can be in the lottery every season.

    If Gay becomes a free agent, he'll be in high demand and get another huge contract. Lakers will take Gay if LBJ or Melo aren't available.
    I continue to be amazed by the willingness of some fans to hope for a first round exit.

    First of all, who is trading Gay for scraps? The reason the Raptors continue to be in the lottery every season is because they continually look to build around inferior talent. Draft picks and cap space are a great start to rebuilding (cap space is for more than free agency). Established young NBA players are also nice. Prospects like Giannis 'Po are extremely desirable. Milwaukee, with Weltman, and Denver, with Ujiri, did a great job weeding out talent in the mid to late first round. Give the Raptors a high pick in this draft class and some mid to first round picks, and I think some serious talent could be added that can develop in Toronto or be sent out for established NBA talent. If the talent is kept, suddenly 2-3 years down the road you get cap space with talent already on the roster - that is how you attract free agents to a great city like Toronto. Your post is what caused Toronto to be trapped for years under Colangelo: no patience. With a five year contract just starting, MU has plenty of time to do it right.

    Secondly, if Rudy is in high demand that is a little bit of a problem no? He is unrestricted after all. If the Lakers come calling wouldn't that be a little bit worrying? Do you really want to relive the Bosh fiasco?
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    Still don't see the point of trading DeRozan, even if we are tanking.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Still don't see the point of trading DeRozan, even if we are tanking.
    Depends on a few of factors:

    1) What do you have with Ross? Likely not to know until end of year.

    2) What are you getting in return? Most important.

    3) What is the plan looking down the road a couple of off seasons? Will you need/want cap space at that time?

    4) Is there another wing available in the draft that makes him expendable?

    5) Are you in a position to sell high?

    6) Has DD plateaued?
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Still don't see the point of trading DeRozan, even if we are tanking.
    I agree. DeMar wants to be here, he's good enough that his contract isn't terrible (it's not "good" yet, not by a longshot, but I'm starting to come around to the idea that he'll eventually play up to its level) and he's a good locker-room presence. Plus, frankly, his style of play is almost exactly contrary to what the league generally wants out of a shooting guard so I don't think the return would justify the trade.

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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    I agree. DeMar wants to be here, he's good enough that his contract isn't terrible (it's not "good" yet, not by a longshot, but I'm starting to come around to the idea that he'll eventually play up to its level) and he's a good locker-room presence. Plus, frankly, his style of play is almost exactly contrary to what the league generally wants out of a shooting guard so I don't think the return would justify the trade.
    And sometimes it's good to go against the grain. Really with his size and developing post game, I just want to see the same ability translate to the other end, where he should be able to be a good (doesn't have to be great), physical defender at SG. Someone that could knock softer guys off their games. And the SG is a really soft position right now. Few guys that are physically imposing, who would be able to take a night of being bodied up by DeMar on both ends. I'm eager to see the real games start to see how he does on D.

    *I know that's not really what you were implying, but I think having a unique player at a position is not a bad thing. His contract could end up being pretty decent or even great value, and because he'll be somewhat unique, while maybe not many teams will look to acquire him, the ones that do will likely believe they have a great need for his type of play at SG.

    **Also I don't mind keeping him in general. NOt suggesting they should look for a trade, but that it's looking more and more like if they decide to, they'll be able to bargain from a position of strength as he'll have solid value.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Tue Oct 22nd, 2013 at 12:00 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Remove Cleveland from any Gay speculation???

    Adrian Wojnarowski: "I think it's more likely he [LeBron James] stays in Miami from everything I've heard. It's more likely but things can change and they do. I think Dwyane Wade's health will play a big factor in that going forward." -

    See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.jILuYBzx.dpuf
    Adrian Wojnarowski: "What I've been told all year is that it will be Miami or Cleveland." -

    See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.jILuYBzx.dpuf
    Woj is the definitive.

    Original source: http://thebiglead.com/2013/10/24/the...and-the-media/
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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