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Thread: MU says "wait and see" approach, how does the schedule play out?

  1. #41
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    A 12-18 start likely will lead to dumping assests. That is why getting out of the gate fast is critical otherwise key assests likely will be moved. We CANNOT start 4-19 again.
    Completely agree.
    Which is why I felt 14-14 at Christmas, was a better .500 target to be aiming for as our "wait and see" limiter, than 20-20 by mid-January.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    And what happens if he takes that new found desirability straight to LA or Dallas, as examples?

    But signing him to an extension and then trading him is something I had not thought of and would be straight out of the MU playbook with Nene.

    Winning AND $$$$ solves everything. If the Raptors can build a solid young core with financial flexibility/cap space and desirable young assets then they can attract the big free agent or trade to put them over the top.

    If Raps make 7/8th seed, outside of resigning and trading Gay, I still don't see how they can improve.
    Then it's apparent that you can't do math.

  3. #43
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    And what happens if he takes that new found desirability straight to LA or Dallas, as examples?
    Fair point. Stupid Player Options.. who gives those anyway?! Lol

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    But signing him to an extension and then trading him is something I had not thought of and would be straight out of the MU playbook with Nene.
    Exactly what I was looking at.

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Winning AND $$$$ solves everything. If the Raptors can build a solid young core with financial flexibility/cap space and desirable young assets then they can attract the big free agent or trade to put them over the top.

    If Raps make 7/8th seed, outside of resigning and trading Gay, I still don't see how they can improve.
    All good points again, but I guess my thinking would be that internal growth can't be discounted either; which is another reason this season is such a huge "wait and see" candidate. Maybe Demar gets it... maybe he doesn't. Maybe Ross bursts onto the scene ... maybe he doesn't. Maybe JV is a beast... maybe he's not. I mean, what if (and I'm going to get burned for this) JV turns out to be a bust. Kwame Brown did average 10 & 7 as a 21 year old (this was more of a joke than anything, so please don't come to my house and hurt me...)
    Maybe Rudy is a Superstar. Maybe KL is our PG of the future.

    I don't think we can comfortably and completely answer any of those yet.
    Last edited by Joey; Tue Oct 22nd, 2013 at 03:37 PM.
    In Masai we Trust.

  4. #44
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Then it's apparent that you can't do math.
    Comments like this really don't contribute Xixak...

    While I can appreciate what you're saying, you need to elaborate, otherwise making a snark comment like that will do nothing but start fights.
    In Masai we Trust.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Fair point. Stupid Player Options.. who gives those anyway?! Lol



    Exactly what I was looking at.



    All good points again, but I guess my thinking would be that internal growth can't be discounted either; which is another reason this season is such a huge "wait and see" candidate. Maybe Demar gets it... maybe he doesn't. Maybe Ross bursts onto the scene ... maybe he doesn't. Maybe JV is a beast... maybe he's not. I mean, what if (and I'm going to get burned for this) JV turns out to be a bust. Kwame Brown did average 10 & 7 as a 21 year old.
    Maybe Rudy is a Superstar. Maybe KL is our PG of the future.

    I don't think we can comfortably and completely answer any of those yet.
    Yes it all comes down to internal growth. If someone (or 3) develops in to alright all star talent this year, now there are possibilities. But expecting everyone to break out and teach potential is a familiar theme.

    The whole JV rookie contract, build throw draft, hit FA hard in '15 and '16 before extension has been said before. That would bet counter.

    The waiting is the hardest part

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  7. #46
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Comments like this really don't contribute Xixak...

    While I can appreciate what you're saying, you need to elaborate, otherwise making a snark comment like that will do nothing but start fights.
    I also don't get. Not only do my math skills appear weak but so are my reading comprehension.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    The Nene for McGee trade, was that Masai's doing or the owner, mostly? Considering Nene's contract and injury problems that turned out to be a decent trade for Denver.
    -"You canít run from me. I mean, my heart donít bleed Kool-Aid."
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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Then it's apparent that you can't do math.
    I keep seeing various people make these comments but I don't understand them.

    Just quickly looking at HoopsHype numbers, they have the Raps at ~$48 million next year (there are a few team options on JV, Amir, Ross but presubaly they will pick those up). If they keep Gay, that number goes to ~$67. As I understand it, even if he opts out to sign some sort of extension, it has to be at a first year salary equal to the $19M. That ~$67M number doesn't include Kyle Lowry at all. Plus, you'll need to add a couple of bench guys.

    Yeah, they have a tonne of cap room in 2015 but that's only because they have no one under contract outside of JV, Derozan, Acy, and Ross. So, they can add an impact piece in 2015 in FA but that player won't be added to current mix.

  10. #49
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    As I understand it, even if he opts out to sign some sort of extension, it has to be at a first year salary equal to the $19M.
    I don't think that's accurate.
    According to Coon anyway:
    Quote Larry Coon wrote:
    The salary in the first year of a veteran extension may be any amount up to 107.5% of the player's previous salary, but no more than the player's maximum salary in that season (i.e., the maximum salary the player can receive if he were to sign a new contract that year as a free agent -- see question numbers 16 and 17).
    There doesn't seem to be any sort of minimum limit set on the contracts.
    In Masai we Trust.

  11. #50
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I don't think that's accurate.
    According to Coon anyway:


    There doesn't seem to be any sort of minimum limit set on the contracts.
    A contract with an option can also be extended if the player opts-out, as long as the extension adds at least two new seasons onto the contract (excluding any new option year) and the salary in the first year of the extension is not less than the salary in the non-exercised option year.



    Above from Larry coon question 59

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  13. #51
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    I wonder why Masai hasn't blown up this team yet? Does he think we're better than an 8th seed or does he have something else up his sleeve?

  14. #52
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    A contract with an option can also be extended if the player opts-out, as long as the extension adds at least two new seasons onto the contract (excluding any new option year) and the salary in the first year of the extension is not less than the salary in the non-exercised option year.



    Above from Larry coon question 59
    I was on cell phone earlier.

    To elaborate on this, Raptors options with Gay are:

    1) play out this upcoming year and he picks up $19.3M option next season,
    2) plays out this upcoming year and he opts out, signs an option starting at $19.3M,
    3) plays out this upcoming year and he opts out, signing elsewhere,
    4) is traded sometime before deadline.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    I wonder why Masai hasn't blown up this team yet? Does he think we're better than an 8th seed or does he have something else up his sleeve?
    My personal theory is Boston and Rondo are the first domino to fall.

    I've been wrong before though.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  16. #54
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    I wonder why Masai hasn't blown up this team yet? Does he think we're better than an 8th seed or does he have something else up his sleeve?
    I think the organization is somewhat haunted by their 5-years-without-playoffs that got BC fired. If a chance is available(with a good start), they are going to take it. It certainly gets them back onto the map of NBA consciousness(saw the Raps mentioned today on ESPN's PTI Pardon The Interruption.)

    With a good start, all their assets increase in value. And I also think that opportunities will open up as other teams go through the season and have more urgent needs that Ujiri can take advantage of. Right now, in the pre-season, it's all sunny days for all teams. But the long season with have disappointments and gaps that can be filled by an opportunistic Ujiri.

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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Maybe. But I think most of the league has a good idea of what everyone else is doing...
    Bargnani to New York. Signing Hansbrough. Picking up Julian Stone.

    Three shots out of the blue. Not expected. Unpredictable.

  18. #56
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Then it's apparent that you can't do math.
    I know exactly what you are thinking, but you are so far off course, I don't think you have the knowledge of the game for me to adequately explain where your mistakes are, in a way that you can understand.





    :-)

  19. #57
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Bargnani to New York. Signing Hansbrough. Picking up Julian Stone.

    Three shots out of the blue. Not expected. Unpredictable.
    Good points.

  20. #58
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default We will know the direction of Toronto after the first 20 games

    I've glanced at the schedule a few times but nothing ever serious.

    Just taking a serious look and I think 22 games is the magic point in the schedule for the Raptors.

    While I'm firmly in the "trade for prospects and picks" camp, I don't think Masai can go that route without making it look like he tried to build with what he has first. Looking at the intense debate that has gone on with that topic here on the forums is a pretty good indication of how this topic strikes a nerve with some fans. By sticking with the first 20 games it can appear to the "Builders" that he tried and by leaving the last 62 games of the season he can still "Tank".

    Why the first 22 games? Here is their schedule:

    Wed 30 vs Boston
    Fri 1 @ Atlanta
    Sat 2 @ Milwaukee
    Tue 5 vs Miami
    Wed 6 @ Charlotte
    Fri 8 @ Indiana
    Sat 9 vs Utah
    Mon 11 @ Houston
    Wed 13 @ Memphis
    Fri 15 vs Chicago

    Sun 17 vs Portland
    Wed 20 @ Philadelphia
    Fri 22 vs Washington
    Tue 26 vs Brooklyn
    Fri 29 vs Miami

    Sun 1 vs Denver
    Tue 3 @ Golden State
    Fri 6 @ Phoenix
    Sun 8 @ L.A. Lakers

    Tue 10 vs San Antonio
    Fri 13 vs Philadelphia
    Sat 14 @ Chicago


    6 games versus the top 4 teams in the East:
    2 games versus Miami
    1 game versus Indiana
    2 games versus Chicago
    1 game Brooklyn

    2 mini-west coast swings

    5 games versus teams fighting for final playoff spots in the east:
    1 vs Boston
    1 vs Atlanta
    1 vs Milwaukee
    1 vs Charlotte
    1 vs Washington

    2 games versus bottom feeder Philly

    4 games versus the better teams in the west:
    1 game vs San Antonio
    1 game vs Golden State
    1 game vs Houston
    1 game vs Memphis

    Given the schedule of the first 22 games, I think Ujiri will have a good indication of what this team can do. In my opinion, if they are not killing in through 22 (I mean 14-8 or better) you've got your indication of what to do with this team. Again, there is no cap space or financial flexibility to work with; keeping the core of this team means it is capped out and you are 100% relying on Ross and JV as the only means of growth with a window of 3-4 years before looking for a new PG and SF.

    As an aside, it takes them up to December 15th when free agents can be traded.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  21. #59
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Bargnani to New York. Signing Hansbrough. Picking up Julian Stone.

    Three shots out of the blue. Not expected. Unpredictable.
    I'll respond with my earlier post

    I don't think every GM has a checklist of 450 players and each teams wishlist for their players. But other GMs will have a pretty good idea of what are teams are need/want (3pt specialist, cap space, draft picks whatever) in part because they have a pretty good idea of where teams are headed or where they are at (rebuild, win now.. whatever)

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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    I agree that MU is a realist (which is why I think making moves sooner rather than later is the most likely scenario), but I disagree that MU is willing to get into treadmill status, which is basically what .500 ball gives you.

    I'd rather a lottery pick than a sweep. Playoff appearances are nice, but they are just a stat used to sell tickets. If you know the team isn't going to contending status, and championships are the goal, why would you waste the opportunity? Once KL and Gay and re-signed, they become less appealing trade assets, and we miss out on a stacked draft. I'm not talking about all out Wiggins level bad, but somewhere in the 8-12 range in this draft still gets you a very good player (PG Andrew Harrison or SF Glenn Robinson to replace KL or Gay).
    Might I ask how you know that Masai isn't willing to play .500 ball and try to build this team Daryl Morey style?

    Just curious, because that actually is one of many options he could pick.

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