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For the people that think DeRozan is overpaid

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  • For the people that think DeRozan is overpaid

    Gordon Hayward and the Utah Jazz are expected to agree to an extension before the Oct. 31 deadline.

    Hayward's deal is likely to be more lucrative than the four-year, $49 million extension teammate Derrick Favors signed last week.

    Hayward has a lot of admirers in front offices around the NBA and would be a highly coveted restricted free agent target if a deal is not reached.
    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/230320/Hayward-Likely-To-Get-$50M+-Extension-From-Jazz


    That's the going rate for young, talented wing players these days. We saw Tyreke get 11M a year, now we're seeing Hayward get 12+. That 9.5M for DeRozan is starting to actually look like somewhat of a bargain.

    I'm sure people are now going to try and argue that either:

    a.) Hayward is significantly better than DeRozan
    b.) Hayward is also significantly overpaid, and we shouldn't use other bad contracts to justify our own.

  • #2
    Why start a thread if you know there's nothing new to be discussed?

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    • #3
      Nilanka wrote: View Post
      Why start a thread if you know there's nothing new to be discussed?
      Why respond to a thread if you have nothing to contribute?

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      • #4
        Xixak wrote: View Post
        b.) Hayward is also significantly overpaid, and we shouldn't use other bad contracts to justify our own.
        Why dismiss that argument? Isn't it a legitimate one? If Bobby jumps off a cliff and survives it doesn't mean it's a good idea to jump off a cliff.

        All comps tell us is how the comparable market is treating similar situations. They aren't necessarily "correct" in the normative sense. The real questions: are the Raptors getting enough out of Derozan to justify his deal? Could they be getting more bang for the buck if they took his $9 million elsewhere? Unfortunately, we can't answer the first question until he's played at least one season under the new deal and the second question is probably impossible to answer with certainty.

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        • #5
          Xixak wrote: View Post
          Why respond to a thread if you have nothing to contribute?
          The contribution was indirectly asking why we need yet another DeRozan is god/DeRozan sucks thread...

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          • #6
            Xixak wrote: View Post
            Why respond to a thread if you have nothing to contribute?
            Why is so important for you to prove that Demar isn't overpaid? Do you have that much of an ego? We get it. You don't think he's overpaid. I agree with Nilanka. Why start a thread on a topic that has already been beat to death since he got the contract? Enough with the "Demar's Contract isn't Overpaid" threads...

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            • #7
              You mean "for the people who KNOW derozan is overpaid"
              A wise man once said: F*ck Brooklyn!

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              • #8
                Xixak wrote: View Post
                I'm sure people are now going to try and argue that either:

                a.) Hayward is significantly better than DeRozan
                b.) Hayward is also significantly overpaid, and we shouldn't use other bad contracts to justify our own.
                Well, yes. I do think Utah is overpaying for both him and Favors. Compare against Steph Curry (11 million a year). Is Gordon Hayward as good as Steph Curry? Hell no. He's not even as good as Ty Lawson ($11.5 large a year). Hayward's more in the Brandon Jennings/Jeff Teague range ($8m per year).

                I mean, I get it: Utah is convinced they have their young core of the future and they want to lock them down because absolutely nobody says "gee, I wanna play in Utah." And Hayward at least played starter minutes last year so they know what he can do. But Favors is simply a bit of a gamble: Utah knows they can be outbid if he turns out to be the real deal, so they want to commit him to the team before the Lakers or the Rockets start giving come-hither looks. But there's that "if" because he's never had starter minutes.

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                • #9
                  Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post
                  Why is so important for you to prove that Demar isn't overpaid? Do you have that much of an ego? We get it. You don't think he's overpaid. I agree with Nilanka. Why start a thread on a topic that has already been beat to death since he got the contract? Enough with the "Demar's Contract isn't Overpaid" threads...
                  There's nothing telling you to enter this thread. Stay out and post in a different one or log out of the forum.

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                  • #10
                    Xixak wrote: View Post
                    There's nothing telling you to enter this thread. Stay out and post in a different one or log out of the forum.
                    I find this quite hypocritical considering the lashings I took this summer from people, including yourself, who did not care to hear my opinion. Just saying.

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                    • #11
                      If to play the devils advocate Hayward is solid, with more usage, without a ball stoper like Big Al cloging the paint and an overall bigger role he can average 18 4 4, on good percentages, he also plays solid defense and overal his potential all around skillset can make that contract look decent

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                      • #12
                        If to play the devils advocate Hayward is solid, with more usage, without a ball stoper like Big Al cloging the paint and an overall bigger role he can average 18 4 4, on good percentages, he also plays solid defense and overal his all around skillset can make that contract look decent, if he plays to his full potential

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                        • #13
                          Hayward is better than DeMar. He is better on both ends of the floor.

                          Still, 12 mil seems too much at this point because there are times when he's very inconsistent, and that's one of the reasons (the other being questionable coaching/plan) why his minutes have been all over the place.

                          I guess if he managed to play 35+ minutes a game with the same production, I'd consider him a 12 mil player. Right now I think he's an under 10 mil player.

                          I know these $ numbers seem odd right now because this is a relatively unproven rookie who had one really good year and still has flaws. I see the same discussion every summer, year after year, different players. In a year, we'll be gasping at how Jimmy Butler got 10 mil a year. But, young above average starters get paid.

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                          • #14
                            magoon wrote: View Post
                            Well, yes. I do think Utah is overpaying for both him and Favors. Compare against Steph Curry (11 million a year). Is Gordon Hayward as good as Steph Curry? Hell no. He's not even as good as Ty Lawson ($11.5 large a year). Hayward's more in the Brandon Jennings/Jeff Teague range ($8m per year).

                            I mean, I get it: Utah is convinced they have their young core of the future and they want to lock them down because absolutely nobody says "gee, I wanna play in Utah." And Hayward at least played starter minutes last year so they know what he can do. But Favors is simply a bit of a gamble: Utah knows they can be outbid if he turns out to be the real deal, so they want to commit him to the team before the Lakers or the Rockets start giving come-hither looks. But there's that "if" because he's never had starter minutes.
                            Steph Curry's salary has something to do with him missing most of the season right before he signed that contract.

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                            • #15
                              It seems like i'm flip-flopping here, because i have been very critical of Demar. Mainly, i've argued that we won't see that much from him that we've haven't seen already, but I've also been critical of his contract.

                              Derozan's contract kicks in this year.
                              9.5 in 2013-2014
                              9.5 in 2014-2015
                              9.5 in 2015-2016
                              9.5 in 2016-2017 (I believe it's a player option, which i assume he WON"T) pick up.

                              I think 9.5mil in 2015-2015 is going to be pretty good, and 9.5 in 2015-2016 is going to be VERY GOOD. So basically, you got one year of slightly overpaid, 1 year of fair market value, and a 1 year at below market prices. The other thing with Demar that people (including myself) OVERLOOK when when comparing salaries is minutes played/durability. Demar has been extremely durable. I'm not sure he's missed a game since he started becoming a regular starter. If you were to break down what he's paid into actual game time minutes, demar would be paid less/minute played versus pretty much anyone, which would increase his value.

                              All in all, I don't think there's a lot to complain about with demar's contract. And I'm very confident that two years from now, no one is going to complain about it (unless there's a serious injuriy, which would seem unlikely). Demar contract is absolutely fine.


                              His defense and 3 pt shooting is another matter, but even if Demar doesn't improve those things (and he almost certainly WON"T) he is not overpaid for the bulk of this contract.
                              Last edited by ezz_bee; Mon Oct 21, 2013, 04:43 PM.
                              "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                              "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

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