For the people that think DeRozan is overpaid

[BobLoblaw]

Agreed, $12M seems steep for a player who has produced in a limited role only thus far, but here are a few tid-bits from the Point Forward piece on this...

...

Good points. If you are a going to bet on someone, bet on the player who made big improvements every year that he was in the league, and Hayward qualifies. Add that to size, athleticism, IQ, ability to create and shoot, effort on D.. Add the likelihood of him scoring 20+ ppg this season simply because there is no one else on that team. It's easy to see why they'd take a risk and maybe overpay him a little, hoping that it looks like a great deal by summer.

[Craiger]

My sense of irony has me believing that while fans are comparing the newly minted contracts of SGs/Wings to what Derozan received. SGs/Wings are going to their agents telling them - "look what Derozan got, I damn well better get atleast that"

[golden]

Yeah, Colangelo, you've raised the bar for all of us!

And the cost$$ for GMs, owners and fans (who ultimately pay the salaries, directly or indirectly). Lockouts are largely the result of GMs like Colangelo who can't control their spending and overpay for mid-lower tier talent. Fortunately, I see MU being more of a guy who likes to get value for his dollar & assets. We'll see...

[mcHAPPY]

Nuno Sá

Any word on the yearly values of Favors extension? What’s the word on Hayward extension?

Steve Kyler

Welcome in everyone… things are moving right along in pre-season. I try not to read too much into these games, simply because teams are experimenting and veteran guys are clearly not playing like they would in real games. Lots of things to get to so lets get after it.

Yes… gotta follow me on Twitter… @stevekylerNBA — 4 years $49 million. Word is Hayward is close, will be less than Favors, but still a solid multi-year deal. I;d peg in the $8 to $9 mil per year range.


Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-rumors...aB2ObvOBohr.99

Not sure who his words are coming from but........... $12M sounds like an agent leak who would be thrilled to get $10M. 100% speculation on my part.

[Machine]

ugh... I fucking wish I was a millionaire

[Axel]

ugh... I fucking wish I was a millionaire

Maybe you're just lazy?

http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...-develop/page3

[Xixak]

Take it easy and tone down your reactions to other posters. You started a thread on a topic that has already been beat to death, starting with another talking point for one side of the argument. Just as you are allowed to have an opinion, so are others. I don't want to see any more snark from you against posts that disagree with your post/thread.

I am taking it easy. If he doesn't like the thread topic he shouldn't enter the thread. Pretty simple.

[Fully]

I think Favors is worth every penny. I had him pegged as one of the best players of his draft class and was waiting to see when he'd get the opportunity to prove it. It was nice of Utah to give him that much though because they could have argued that he hasn't had enough minutes to prove himself. He's going to be solid.

DeRozan.. I don't mind how much he is making right now. It's not the worst contract in the world. For me I still think the decision to give him the contract was idiotic, because you painted yourself into a corner for it and you didn't need to. For me I was more against the principles behind making deals like that. DeRozan could conceivably earn 80% of that money which is more than one can say for more than 20 other players in the league. But still, it was a bad move. It's like going on a roller coaster and not putting down the safety bar. If you survived -- congratulations, you're still dumb.

I don't know much about Hayward so I can't comment.

Good point, and that's what I think is getting lost in all this as we try and view the DD contract in a vacuum.

The DD hate has always been a little out of control. $9 million isn't an egregious overpayment for DeRozan no matter how up in arms his detractors get. He's probably overpaid $1-$3 million for the time being but let's not act like this is Gilbert Arenas or Rashard Lewis clogging up a third of the cap and giving you nothing. It's a little harder to stomach because the roster is littered with so many other bad deals, but I disgress...

The real problem with the DeRozan extension is that the Raptors held all the leverage when it came to negotations and yet BC bid against himself to proactively lock up a player who had exclusively put up good numbers on a bad team.... and this is 4 months after they spent a top 8 pick on a player at the same position.... and 3 months after they threw $20 million away on Fields... and 4 months before they packaged all of their assets to get a largely redundant player (Gay) who makes even more than him.

Context is everything.

[mcHAPPY]

Good point, and that's what I think is getting lost in all this as we try and view the DD contract in a vacuum.

The DD hate has always been a little out of control. $9 million isn't an egregious overpayment for DeRozan no matter how up in arms his detractors get. He's probably overpaid $1-$3 million for the time being but let's not act like this is Gilbert Arenas or Rashard Lewis clogging up a third of the cap and giving you nothing. It's a little harder to stomach because the roster is littered with so many other bad deals, but I disgress...

The real problem with the DeRozan extension is that the Raptors held all the leverage when it came to negotations and yet BC bid against himself to proactively lock up a player who had exclusively put up good numbers on a bad team.... and this is 4 months after they spent a top 8 pick on a player at the same position.... and 3 months after they threw $20 million away on Fields... and 4 months before they packaged all of their assets to get a largely redundant player (Gay) who makes even more than him.

Context is everything.

$9M is nothing assuming he lives up to the contract. If he doesn't, there are a whole bunch of $8-10M contracts out there now and in recent years that are unmovable for anything of value. $9.5M is about 17% of the cap and 60% of a max contract though.

With that said, he seems to have too much passion for the game and is too young to ever succumb to the CV's, Stuckey's, Biedrins, etc. of the league. I would be absolutely shocked if he was rotting on the bench of a team before this contract was up.

[akashsingh]

it's great that derozan can finally take advantage of being guarded by the tim hardaway jr's, beno udrih's, charles douglas roberts etc. (who?) of this world, but until he stops making stupid decisions against the better defenders and adjustments teams make(and good teams will have multiple good defenders) he is overall inefficient. There is definitely an improvement though, I loved that spin move from yesterdays game, his dribble is much tighter now.

let's avoid this bargnani 13 game primo pasta circle jerk for now shall we?

[Machine]

Maybe you're just lazy?

http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...-develop/page3

I guess you're right.. I'm not wishing hard enough

[planetmars]

It's been said.. but the biggest blow to the DeMar contract was not necessarily his contract (Fields is much worse), but that he got that contract a year before free agency. He was a restricted free agent. If another team wanted him for more than $9.5M and he wanted to go then let him walk.. He's not Lebron. Him leaving would not impact the team so negatively that they would be forced to rebuild for 3+ years. DeMar is not Carter or McGrady. I wish he was, but he's not.

As for the dollar amount, I think he will live up to that contract in 2-3 years.. although Bargnani didn't and he had more talent when he got his contract. And at 24 is when most athletic SG's peak. Hopefully he continues to grow after this year (assuming he's still a Raptor).

[connected]

Context is everything.

Of the BC era this is probably the least offensive contract of the 'overpaid contracts' ... he got less than Bargnani, Ford, Calderon, Turkoglu

It's more than Fields, Klieza, Kapono (what he offered john salmons) but all these moves handcuffed the raps more than the DeMar extension

[Xixak]

Of the BC era this is probably the least offensive contract of the 'overpaid contracts' ... he got less than Bargnani, Ford, Calderon, Turkoglu

It's more than Fields, Klieza, Kapono (what he offered john salmons) but all these moves handcuffed the raps more than the DeMar extension

I would take 07-08 Kapono on this current team for the 6M he made back then over DeRozan at 9.5M. One of the best shooters in the league at the time, able to space the floor excellently, and also had enough size to create some mismatches on the perimeter.

[ezz_bee]

It's been said.. but the biggest blow to the DeMar contract was not necessarily his contract (Fields is much worse), but that he got that contract a year before free agency. He was a restricted free agent. If another team wanted him for more than $9.5M and he wanted to go then let him walk.. He's not Lebron. Him leaving would not impact the team so negatively that they would be forced to rebuild for 3+ years. DeMar is not Carter or McGrady. I wish he was, but he's not.

To play devil's advocate, there two things that need to be considered.

By letting him go to free agency you face the following possible situations (Caveat worth is subjective):

1a) He is worth =>9.5 mill a year, he gets offered what he's worth. We either match and pay more than we would under current deal, or we lose a player who was valued correctly, because we couldn't fit him onto our roster because of money/cap space issues.

1b) He is worth more than =>9.5 mill a year, he gets offered more than what he's worth. We either match and are saddled with a bad value contract or we lose him.

2a) He is worth less than 9.5 mill a year, he gets offered what he's worth, you either match and get a good value contract or you let him walk because of salary constraints.

2b) He is worth less than 9.5 mill a year, and he's gets offered more than what he's worth, you let him walk or you have a bad contract.

Basically, both 1a & 2a are low risk, because in both scenarios he's getting offered what he is worth (whatever that means) and the org can choose to keep him or leave him. The gain in value the org makes by extending him if he is worth it, is offset but the loss of value the org losses because he's not worth 9.5 mill. In both of these cases I would match, because the only options are a fair contract, or loses the player for nothing. If you let him walk value is going out, but no value is coming back.

1b & 2b have fairly obvious answers, in both cases the player is being offered more than he's worth, you should let him walk. Although the draw back is that the org has invested a lot of time/energy/resources that it get's nothing back for.

Scenario's 1a & 2a are the best case scenario's in letting the player go to free agency, but what are the odds that NO team is going to over pay for your player? Especially because there are more teams that the agent can leverage against one another to inflate price. If your player is going to be offered more than he's worth, you only have bad options.

So it seems to me the trick to an extension, would be you want to offer, what you think will be equal to or slightly lower than the LOWEST possible WINNING bid in free agency.

If Demar was in free agency right now, how much would he be offered? How many years and what is the raise structure?

I would be surprised if no team offered demar at least a 3 year 28.5 mill deal or a 4 year 38 mill deal.

So for me it's either Coangelo did a pretty good and guaging the market or he got lucky.