ebrian wrote:
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For the people that think DeRozan is overpaid
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Xixak wrote: View PostThere's nothing telling you to enter this thread. Stay out and post in a different one or log out of the forum.
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Xixak wrote: View PostI am taking it easy. If he doesn't like the thread topic he shouldn't enter the thread. Pretty simple.
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Brandon wrote:Matt, I don't know why you're bothering. Why bother trying to convince people who are so impressed by dunks and ppg?
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Matt52 wrote: View PostBold 2: Where did you read that? I said between $6-7 million, and if I was not clear enough I meant per year.
Matt52 wrote: View PostBold 3: It is not semantics.
Matt52 wrote: View PostBold 4: while my math was not exact the difference between a $6.5M and $9.5M contract is almost 50%.
Matt52 wrote: View PostBold 5: DeRozan is going to continuously improve year after year? How do you know? When you're paying for potential you might get Amir and you might get Stuckey.
How much is 9.5 million worth 3 years from now, in today's dollars?Last edited by ezz_bee; Thu Oct 24, 2013, 04:48 AM."They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014
"I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015
"We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon
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Brandon wrote:Matt, I don't know why you're bothering. Why bother trying to convince people who are so impressed by dunks and ppg?"They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014
"I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015
"We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon
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ezz_bee wrote: View PostThe range you gave was 6-7 mil, which to meant that you think it is very conceivable that the biggest offer he would get would be 6 mil. Or were you saying that all offers would fall between the 6-7mil range? In that case the winning/biggest offer would be 7 mil.
I agree that cap space is not semantics, the semantics I was referring to, is that valuation is only objective to a certain point. If you say the biggest possible offer is 7 mil, and I say the the biggest possible offer is 10 mil, there's really no way to say unequivocally who is right, because we can't know who was right until the player goes to free agency. If I can't convince you that it's possible 1 team would offer derozan 10 mil a year and you can't convince me that not a single team would offer a penny more than 7mil, eventually we just have to agree to disagree. Or find an arbiter.
Right, but if we take you 7 mil, figure it's almost exactly 35%.
The thing is I'm saying his contract is fine assuming he doesn't REGRESS, which i do think is a safe assumption. I'm not expecting him to improve, except by VERY modest amounts, and I don't think he'll need to in order to be worth his contract, ESPECIALLY in year 3. Is he worth 9.5 mill this season? Maybe not. Do I think it's entirely possible that he'd have been offered 3 years and 30 million? Absolutely it's possible.
How much is 9.5 million worth 3 years from now, in today's dollars?
Bold 2: and 35% is still a lot more
Bold 3: And in that case he would have been paid about 5%/$500K more than he is now and Ujiri would have had a choice to make. I can live with that. However, BC gave up all leverage in the RFA process. Just as you believe it is possible he would have received 3/$30 or 4/$28, I think it is possible he receives 3/$21. Anyone offering 3/$30 are paying for potential. His production did not justify it. With the new CBA and the implications of overpriced salaries along with the rising weight many front offices place on analytics combined with the nature of RFA, I don't think $6-7M is unreasonable when looking at DD making the choice between $24-28M guaranteed or $6M to become an UFA.
Bold 4: Considering the world is a deflationary spiral where central banks all over the world are creating more debt to solve a sovereign debt crisis (who'd of thunk the solution to too much debt is to create more of it!), I would say $9.5M in 3 years will be worth more than it is today.Last edited by mcHAPPY; Thu Oct 24, 2013, 05:29 AM.
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Lest people get the wrong impression, I'm PRO-VALUE when it comes to bball decisions (which means my philosophy is more aligned with pro-tank, than anti-tank, even though i think the whole to tank or not to tank debate is misguided). I'm also anti-derozan. The NBA is a 3 point league and Dero can't shoot them, he's not the defender he should be with his athleticism, he's a ball stopping wing who takes to many mid-range jumpers and he isn't terrible efficient at shooting them. BUT my problem with derozan is not his contract.
Why?
Derozan's contract is a NON-ISSUE because it is easy to move. Even if we all agree that Derozan is overpaid this year (which I'm happy to agree to btw, although he's only very SLIGHTLY overpaid IMO), how hard is it going to be for Ujiri to move him? This is the guy that got rid of Barg's w/out taking on any poisonous contracts. He's going to have no problem shipping Demar out. He'll probably be able to ship demar out for a less talented player on a better value contract, heck Ujiri may even be able to get an equally talented player on a better value contract.
Anyway, I actually don't care that much about Demar, I just think that his contract isn't a problem, because
1) over the length of his contract, I believe worst case scenario is that his contract is a wash
2) he's easily moved for other contracts that are definitely not a problem in terms of value and cap space.
BUT if you disagree, that's not a problem. BUT we really should be complaining about his shot selection, not his contract.
For the record, I'm huge MATT52 fanboy, and any disagreement I have with him is intellectual not personal."They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014
"I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015
"We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon
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ezz_bee wrote: View PostLest people get the wrong impression, I'm PRO-VALUE when it comes to bball decisions (which means my philosophy is more aligned with pro-tank, than anti-tank, even though i think the whole to tank or not to tank debate is misguided). I'm also anti-derozan. The NBA is a 3 point league and Dero can't shoot them, he's not the defender he should be with his athleticism, he's a ball stopping wing who takes to many mid-range jumpers and he isn't terrible efficient at shooting them. BUT my problem with derozan is not his contract.
Why?
Derozan's contract is a NON-ISSUE because it is easy to move. Even if we all agree that Derozan is overpaid this year (which I'm happy to agree to btw, although he's only very SLIGHTLY overpaid IMO), how hard is it going to be for Ujiri to move him? This is the guy that got rid of Barg's w/out taking on any poisonous contracts. He's going to have no problem shipping Demar out. He'll probably be able to ship demar out for a less talented player on a better value contract, heck Ujiri may even be able to get an equally talented player on a better value contract.
Anyway, I actually don't care that much about Demar, I just think that his contract isn't a problem, because
1) over the length of his contract, I believe worst case scenario is that his contract is a wash
2) he's easily moved for other contracts that are definitely not a problem in terms of value and cap space.
BUT if you disagree, that's not a problem. BUT we really should be complaining about his shot selection, not his contract.
For the record, I'm huge MATT52 fanboy, and any disagreement I have with him is intellectual not personal.
The contract length point you raise is significant. There was a time when extensions and contracts were 7 years! Then 6. Now 5 for bird FA/rookie designation and 4 for everyone else. Even bad contracts aren't as bad as they were a short time ago.
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To me, the biggest error with Derozan's extension was that it really seemed like BC was bidding against himself. $6M-$7M seemed like the much more reasonable rate, and if Demar was pushing for something higher, say $10M, then you let him play it out and match the offer sheet.
BC bid against himself and bet that Demar was going to be make huge strides last year, thus driving up his cost, which is as much about BC's faith in his guys than anything else. No one else seemed to believe that Demar would earn a $10M+ offer sheet but if he did then you deal with it. You can still sign the guy before he gets an offer sheet, and since Demar loves Toronto, there's no reason to believe that he wouldn't at least try to deal before taking other offers.Heir, Prince of Cambridge
If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.
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I think it's entirely likely that Demar's contract negotiations went like this:
BC - Demar, we are thinking around $6M...
DD - Bryan, you gave $6.2M to Landry Fields.....so....
BC - $9.5M it is!Heir, Prince of Cambridge
If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.
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