I don't think I missed your point at all. I think you were being pessimistic about our roster as per usual. You said "One of the big knocks about the Raptors' current roster is that even if the team does build a good culture, even if they develop good chemistry and even if all the talent/potential is maximized, the problem is that the pieces don't fit to get all that well"......
I reminded you that not only did it seem like the current core (Lowry, DD, Rudy, Amir, JV) seem to "fit" pretty good, they were 3rd in the entire NBA. I think thats pretty relevant to the discussion and counters your point about fit with this core don't you?
My comment about the pessimistic attitude that exists around RR forums is just honesty and it wasn't directed towards you alone. I personally notice this pessimistic attitude from MANY of the pro-tankers. How can you be so pessimistic and be a tanker at the same time?? - is beyond me! At what point do you have optimism? Especially, when you're possibly dealing with the lottery!
Anywho. I apologize for the sigh.....However, i'm pretty sure I got your point.
Last edited by special1; Wed Oct 30th, 2013 at 03:40 PM.
2 key points I was making:
- 'fit' is important, along with talent level and team culture/chemistry
- many NBA experts/insiders point out a perceived lack of fit on Toronto's current roster (ie: $27.4M salary this season on 2 starting wings that have a similar game - scoring without consistent 3pt shooting, and no lock-down defense)
I wasn't even necessarily voicing my own opinion about the Raptors' roster, but rather just pointing out what many experts have been saying about it all offseason. That's neither pessimistic or optimistic (I wasn't getting into a debate about whether they were right or not, hence my use of the term "perceived").
I was offering an opinion on key ingredients for building a successful team, in general. You've yet to comment about that, despite replying to my quote twice so far. All you've done is got defensive about the 'fit' of the current Raptors roster, which wasn't really what I was talking about at all.
Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Oct 30th, 2013 at 04:24 PM.
Whatever the media "experts" say, who most often barely ever see a Raptors game, there's more substance in what really happened last year and preseason this year. There's no 1 formula to creating a high quality NBA team. Non of the contenders are built the same way as the others, as it has always been. It's up to the coaching staff to devise offensive and defensive schemes that FIT the talent on the team, not try and fantasize about re-creating someone else's model, which is impossible without the exact same players.
In any case, the whole tanking topic has been beaten to death for months, and until the games are played, there really isn't anything new to be said/discussed. How about we give it a rest for at least a few games.
Just because someone has a different opinion than me doesn't mean I can't recognize that they've made a good point or an enlightening remark, hence me liking a few posts along the way that may not line up directly with my line of thinking.
Rebuilding through the draft at this point pretty much means making the Raptors into the Timberwolves ver2.
It's been 5 years in the lottery, this year would make 6. Give the additions 3 years to mature into players that might be able to win (like in Cleveland with Kyrie) and the Raptors can match the T-wolves 9 yr lotto streak.
The only good thing that would come out of tanking would be a big increase in media seating because 1) no fans will be in the building to watch the team lose 50+ games a season over the next 3+ years and 2) there won't be much media covering the games either.
The good news about tanking and becoming the T-wolves ver2 is after that long losing - when you do land that star (like Kevin Love), he can't wait to get out of town to join an organization that's willing to spend to win instead.
Of course if this team as constructed can't win, the Raptors options are pretty limited
The best Raptors discussion board is at Raptors Republic.
Stephen Brotherston, Pro Bball Report
If you take a wrong turn and go down the wrong path do you turn around and get back on track? Or do you keep going hoping you eventually get to where you want to go?
The reality is if last night is what we can expect from this year, the Raptors are going in the lottery whether they like it or not.
Bold 1: Raptors are willing to spend to win but they don't have the talent to win.
Bold 2: My money is on this.
"You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"Bruno Caboclo
"I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder
For those that put too much stock into ONE game.....keep in mind that The Miami Heat lost last night to Philadelphia. The Clippers lost to the Lakers the night before. I'm sure there are more examples across the league. At least we came out with the Win (Yay for anti-tankers .....pro-tankers may be disappointed).
However, last year there were a whole other set of circumstances and expectations.
1) No lotto pick unless top 3. Wins mattered because there was no light at the end of a craptacular season.
2) Expectations were 13 game Bargnani would reemerge.
3) Same song and dance about DeRozan this season was the theme last season... and the season before.
4) The job Casey did in year one with no real talent to speak of (and no interference from the front office) in 2011-12 allowed a tough gritty team that held opponents to a top 10 opp fg%. The expectation was to build on that when the reality is the Raptors took quite few steps back.
5) Fields, while everyone agreed was overpaid, was still thought of as a productive player. No one knew he was injured and many were expecting a return to pre-Melo form in NY.
6) As bad as the Raptors bench turned out to be last season, it was waaaay worse the year before.
7) Mid season Gay was brought in and before finishing the year at 17-16 with a starting Gay, they were 10-15 before #AprilFoolsGold. Everyone points to that 17-16 but all I remember is the losing streak that followed the winning streak to get them close to playoff contention. They got close and literally shit the bed. They started winning games when the season was over. For all that clamour to the idea of, "We were just 4 games out of the playoffs!" Yes, true. But context is important. An 8-1 finish to the season was also with a 2-7 finish for the Bucks (who also lost 16 of last 24).
So for me comparing last year to this year is a not really relevant because there are different circumstances and expectations (obviously this is very much based on one's perspective and opinion!!!).
"You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"Bruno Caboclo
Last year was brutal for a lot of reasons.. that has tainted my expectations for this season and as such am watching the team much differently.
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