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The Ultimate Debate: Is Led Zeppelin A Metal Band?

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  • #16
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    You're trying to retroactively re-categorize things based on modern notion of the genre.

    Here is a good example: Iggy Pop and the Clash don't really sound like "punk" if your definition of "punk" is what you hear today but looking at things that way doesn't make sense. If anything, if Iggy Pop doesn't sound like all those generic crap "punk bands" then maybe those bands aren't really punk?
    i'm not really sure who you're talking to, but YOU’RE the one being revisionist classifying a band that is not metal as metal because you don’t understand the culture and only relate to it through VH1 and the fucking pansy that made metal evolution and all those shitty docs.

    obviously, music is a continuum where everything that’s created has been informed by something that preceded it. no-one would argue that zeppelin wasn’t a huge influence on sabbath. half the first sabbath record is in the same bluesy hard rock vein as zeppelin. this does not make zeppelin a metal band.

    hardcore was a massive influence on slayer and first wave black metal bands like bathory and venom. is black flag a thrash metal band? have the DK’s become black metal? no, because that is ridiculous.

    my point is that somewhere along the line of the music-evolution continuum a thing splinters off and becomes so wholly unique and different from what preceded it that it is now a New Thing, and inspires legions of others to follow in the footsteps of that New Thing.

    with many genres, that point in time is pretty difficult to identify.

    but with metal, it’s very easy. it is the riff from the song BLACK SABBATH on the album BLACK SABBATH by the band BLACK SABBATH.

    it is slow. it is downtuned. it is scary as hell and heavy as balls. it is the first metal riff, and if you want to deny this i would suggest you listen to a lot more metal and stop pretending you like it or that you know anything about it.

    Apollo wrote: View Post
    Most modern metal bands are talentless hacks when compared to the likes of Zep in their prime. Maybe most of these modern metal bands should be sub-categorized into a new genre? We could call it "feces metal" or "half digested generic metal"?
    you just dismissed the modern output of a genre wholesale, which is so ignorant i dunno where to start. you could say this about literally any genre. music sucks. period. unless you're willing to dig to discover things through non-traditional avenues. the fact that you aren't indicates that you probably don't actually like metal and maybe shouldn't speak to its history

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    • #17
      LBF wrote: View Post


      metal!
      the only thing metal about this to me is the still of their album cover with the hindenburg going down in flames.

      oh-the-humanity is metal as hell

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      • #18
        Guys, simmer down, its music, and its art and its all up for debate as personal feelings will always be involved. We all have our own idea about what metal is. Some, like me, find that a blues foundation keeps a band in the "hard rock" category, other, look at the hard core riffs and distortion a band like Zeppelin often offered, and claim Metal through and through. truth is, bands are constantly bending their genres, and Zeppelin was masterful at this, so much so that you almost wanna down grade them to just plain ole "Rock" as they bounced from category to category often in one album. Is "you don't have to go" Metal, or is it a Blues/Reggae fusion? And Dazed and Confused, its slow and stretched awesome of riffs....is that metal, sounds metal to me, but then Robert Plant opens his mouth and offers up some of the deepest Blues singing I have ever heard.

        Rather than tear into each other in silly attempts to prove your prowess, why not discuss all the awesome ways bands like Zeppelin and even in some ways Sabbath, basically avoided being put into a category, and because of this, why they grew such massive audiences that spanned generations and genres. They simply just rock that shit out proper.

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        • #19
          chris wrote: View Post
          i'm not really sure who you're talking to, but YOU’RE the one being revisionist classifying a band that is not metal as metal because you don’t understand the culture and only relate to it through VH1 and the fucking pansy that made metal evolution and all those shitty docs.

          obviously, music is a continuum where everything that’s created has been informed by something that preceded it. no-one would argue that zeppelin wasn’t a huge influence on sabbath. half the first sabbath record is in the same bluesy hard rock vein as zeppelin. this does not make zeppelin a metal band.

          hardcore was a massive influence on slayer and first wave black metal bands like bathory and venom. is black flag a thrash metal band? have the DK’s become black metal? no, because that is ridiculous.

          my point is that somewhere along the line of the music-evolution continuum a thing splinters off and becomes so wholly unique and different from what preceded it that it is now a New Thing, and inspires legions of others to follow in the footsteps of that New Thing.

          with many genres, that point in time is pretty difficult to identify.

          but with metal, it’s very easy. it is the riff from the song BLACK SABBATH on the album BLACK SABBATH by the band BLACK SABBATH.

          it is slow. it is downtuned. it is scary as hell and heavy as balls. it is the first metal riff, and if you want to deny this i would suggest you listen to a lot more metal and stop pretending you like it or that you know anything about it.



          you just dismissed the modern output of a genre wholesale, which is so ignorant i dunno where to start. you could say this about literally any genre. music sucks. period. unless you're willing to dig to discover things through non-traditional avenues. the fact that you aren't indicates that you probably don't actually like metal and maybe shouldn't speak to its history
          Definitely need to relax a bit chris.

          One could argue its rather ignorant of you to say that Metal HAS TO BE "scary" sounding.
          When I think of Heavy Metal I think of LOUD and DISTORTED and FAST.
          Not really slow and scary. So to each their own.
          And just as your argument states, just because Zeppelin was certainly influenced by Blues, doesn't make them a Blues Band. They were alot of things, absolutely, but they were, in my opinion, the starting point of Metal. The point where Metal became a thing, because like you said, they were just THAT different.
          Last edited by Joey; Tue Oct 29, 2013, 10:01 AM.

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          • #20
            This reminds me of the "Are the Beastie Boys punk or hip hop?" argument

            think about that one for a few minutes..

            really think about it...

            make sure you have a well formed opinion before you continue reading past this point..

            seriously.. are you sure?

            the correct answer is...

            IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER

            genres are bullshit... good music is good music... regardless of the labels you put on them.

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            • #21
              heinz57 wrote: View Post
              This reminds me of the "Are the Beastie Boys punk or hip hop?" argument

              think about that one for a few minutes..

              really think about it...

              make sure you have a well formed opinion before you continue reading past this point..

              seriously.. are you sure?

              the correct answer is...

              IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER

              genres are bullshit... good music is good music... regardless of the labels you put on them.
              it's true genres are bullshit because "grunge", what the hell is "grunge"? It's not a type of music..it was a movement that was labelled in pop-culture as "grunge". Grunge is not the type of music that those bands that were so diverse played.
              If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

              Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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              • #22
                joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                Definitely need to relax a bit chris.

                One could argue its rather ignorant of you to say that Metal HAS TO BE "scary" sounding.
                When I think of Heavy Metal I think of LOUD and DISTORTED and FAST.
                Not really slow and scary. So to each their own.
                okay yeah sorry i mighta had a couple of bourbons last night and got a little feisty about something near and dear to my cold black heart.

                a riff doesn't need to be slow and scary to be metal. of course a lot of metal riffs are as you described. metal has evolved in a thousand different directions since 1969.

                but what is a fact here is that very slow, very downtuned, heavy as hell and evil sounding riffs are characteristic only of music that is metal, and no one had made one before that song. nothing zeppelin did became a staple to the genre, unless you think they invented playing at volume.

                plus they're missing the aesthetic i mentioned earlier, which is integral. they were an influence but not the jumping off point.

                and with that i'm gonna duck out of this conversation

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                • #23
                  Quirk wrote: View Post

                  BTW, on the login page of this forum, under the login form, beside the login button, there is a button that says "Reset Fields"...

                  Has anybody tried pushing it? Might fix his shot.
                  I actually laughed out reading that. Thanks Quirk.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    chris wrote: View Post
                    okay yeah sorry i mighta had a couple of bourbons last night and got a little feisty about something near and dear to my cold black heart.
                    ......
                    and with that i'm gonna duck out of this conversation
                    Oh I don't mean to discourage passionate debate; that was not at all my intent. By all means, fight to the death what you believe, just maybe leave out the personal attacks. Other than that, bring it on!

                    chris wrote: View Post
                    a riff doesn't need to be slow and scary to be metal. of course a lot of metal riffs are as you described. metal has evolved in a thousand different directions since 1969.

                    but what is a fact here is that very slow, very downtuned, heavy as hell and evil sounding riffs are characteristic only of music that is metal, and no one had made one before that song. nothing zeppelin did became a staple to the genre, unless you think they invented playing at volume.

                    plus they're missing the aesthetic i mentioned earlier, which is integral. they were an influence but not the jumping off point.
                    Great points. As many have mentioned, in this regards I'd say its fair to say Sabbath and Zeppelin are peers in a common cause.

                    And for the record, Zeppelin wasn't just louder; they were faster, meaner and more aggressive than any 'rock' to that point.
                    Last edited by Joey; Wed Oct 30, 2013, 08:43 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Zep = Blues for me.
                      Sabbath = Metal.

                      When I think Zep, I think sex.
                      When I think Sabbath, I think something something devil, something black stuff.

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                      • #26
                        Craig wrote: View Post
                        Zep = Blues for me.
                        Sabbath = Metal.

                        When I think Zep, I think sex.
                        When I think Sabbath, I think something something devil, something black stuff.
                        Jimmy Page was actually into devil worship and shit like that, he was obsessed with aleister Crowley.. He was the real deal when it came to something devil, and black stuff.. Ozzy saw this and he thought it was cool so he faked it for an image, he wasn't really into it, he just exaggerated what he saw from zeppelin.

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                        • #27
                          Ya, I know. Just what comes to mind is all.

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                          • #28
                            Apollo wrote: View Post
                            Most modern metal bands are talentless hacks when compared to the likes of Zep in their prime. Maybe most of these modern metal bands should be sub-categorized into a new genre? We could call it "feces metal" or "half digested generic metal"?
                            +1000000000

                            does anyone watch revolution here?

                            season two had a great zepplin reference where one guy was hitting on a chick, charlie, and told her the power came on for a couple minutes and the jukebox played "ramble on" and he mistook it for gods voice.

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