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Thread: If not Kyle, then who?

  1. #1
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    Default If not Kyle, then who?

    In a lot of the tank/rebuild threads people have been advocating for trading Kyle Lowry, with the usual sentiment being "he isn't a starting point guard." Naturally there are those who disagree with this proposition, and that's fine. This thread isn't to say that Kyle should be traded or not. This thread is, instead, to address what other options reasonably exist at point guard.

    PG is a deep position around the league. There are a lot of good point guards in the NBA right now. But how many of those good point guards are obtainable by the Raptors?

    Untouchable: Steph Curry, Chris Paul, Mike Conley, Kyrie Irving, Derrick Rose, Ricky Rubio, John Wall, Ty Lawson, Tony Parker, Damian Lillard, Russell Westbrook, George Hill, Deron Williams. These thirteen point guards (and we're already more than a third of the way through the league!) are not going anywhere (except possibly the Lakers, you always have to account for the Lakers). They are locked up on longterm deals or rookie deals that will be extended. They are the top stars of their team or at worst the second-most important stars on their team except for Mike Conley and George Hill (who perfectly complement their contender teams' systems and thus can't be moved easily). We have no equivalent star to trade for them unless you move Jonas, and even then, maybe Jonas doesn't get it done.

    Probably too expensive: Jrue Holiday, Kemba Walker, Jeff Teague, Rajon Rondo. These are all damn good point guards and not the cores of their team, but that is not to say these players aren't valued highly by their teams. Would the Pelicans trade Jrue Holiday if the right trade came along? Yes, but Jrue Holiday cost the Pelicans their 2013 first-round pick (Nerlens Noel) and their 2014 first-rounder. That's two first-round draft picks, one of which was in the lottery and the second of which might well also be. That is very, very expensive and I doubt Masai is willing to pay that price, especially when only one of these guys - Rondo - is a true star player.

    Gettable but perhaps problematic: Brandon Jennings, Goran Dragic, Jeremy Lin, Jose Calderon, Eric Bledsoe, Grievis Vasquez. All of these guys can be traded for, but all have issues. Bledsoe will likely be VERY expensive, assuming Phoenix is willing to consider moving him (and Phoenix increasingly looks to be aiming for a speedy rebuild, so maybe not) and if he's gettable it will largely be because of an uninspiring season in Phoenix. Dragic is solid as a rock but not inspiring. Jennings has a history of selfish play and bad shot choices (like Toronto needs more of those). Jose is on a pricey contract for an aging player (and would he want to come back?). Vasquez seems more like a Jarrett Jack "best possible backup" sort of PG than a true starter.

    Of these guys, I like Lin as the best option: his floor-general style of play and expertise in the pick-n-roll seems well-suited for Toronto, Landry Fields already knows how to play with him, and Houston could probably be convinced to free up his salary when they have Patrick Beverley starting at PG now. Plus, come on, it would be kind of awesome to have him here. But Lin's contract is beefy ($15m next year due to its backweighted structure) and he's had injury issues over the last year.

    Rooks: Trey Burke, Michael-Carter Williams, Nemanja Nedovic, CJ McCollum, Shane Larkin, Pierre Jackson. All unproven, of course. After MCW's debut he will likely be too expensive to get. Shane Larkin has potential but is very, very raw. Burke and McCollum are injured and will miss some of the season (and will just be harder to evaluate). I really liked Jackson but he's a D-League level talent right now and needs to develop.

    Next year's draft: There are really, really good PG prospects in the lottery next year. Marcus Smart, Dante Exum and Andrew Harrison are all top-10 prospects. Vasilije Micic and Jahii Carson both look to have potential if we're drafting lower (Carson is tiny at 5'10", but stupidly talented and will drop down based on his size).

    So the point basically is this: if you have concerns about Kyle Lowry? It's moderately difficult to upgrade him.

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  3. #2
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I think it's most likely to be resolved through the draft. I totally agree that is it not at all easy to get a high quality PG in this league. The price is going to be pretty high. There definitely could be lots of options come draft time, regardless of where the Raps draft.

    Another possible draft name you didn't mention is Semaj Christon. He has great size, defensive tools, speed, and has tremendous upside all around. *Oh, and he maybe won't require a lottery pick.

    **In the meantime, if they do decide to totally tank this year and end up trading Lowry, there may be options among the teams that could have interest in Gay...Not sure any would have interest in Lowry, but some could, like Milwaukee. They have Ridnour. Charlotte's got Sessions.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Fri Nov 1st, 2013 at 03:21 PM.

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    I would be interested in Vasquez from Sacramento. Cheap, young and underrated in my opinion. I think he would be a great stopgap with the potential to grow into something more.

    If Lowry is traded then I'm going to assume that the Rebuild is on, so I don't think it's imperative that you find your "PG of the future" by the end of the season. I think it's more important that you tie up as little money as possible in the position until you're sure that you've got the right guy. If you can land a first rounder for KL, maybe you look to fill that void with that pick next summer.

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    If Schroeder in Atlanta starts to tear it up this season then Atlanta would be willing to move Teague for the right deal. Derozan for Teague? Gay for Teague and Korver? Something like that could work.
    Other than that, I'm all about finding a new PG in the draft since we should be able to find a talented one at our draft position if we deal Lowry. If we don't deal Lowry, we'll probably be a playoff team so we could take some like Carson to groom behind Lowry like what Atlanta is doing with Schroeder and Teague.

    As DJ Augustin has taught me already in this short season, backup PG is possibly the most underrated position in the NBA.

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    I like Vasquez but I think the Kings have plans to keep him. He's not so young by NBA standards. He'll be 27 in January.

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    Marcus Smart, Dante Exum, Andrew Harrison, and Vasilije Micic would work for me
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    It's tough to begin to answer this question before we know where we're going. If we stay as we are, that means he stays. That sounds simple but if the rest of the guys are staying and he chooses to stay, I can't see him being traded. On the other hand, if we implode, that might get us our new point guard or may get us our "position doesn't matter" ball handling superstar. It might not be worth the money or trade resources to get someone else. Who have been the point guards on the last few championship teams?

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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    It's tough to begin to answer this question before we know where we're going. If we stay as we are, that means he stays. That sounds simple but if the rest of the guys are staying and he chooses to stay, I can't see him being traded. On the other hand, if we implode, that might get us our new point guard or may get us our "position doesn't matter" ball handling superstar. It might not be worth the money or trade resources to get someone else. Who have been the point guards on the last few championship teams?
    Other than the Mavericks it's only been Super-teams that have won the championship (Heat, Lakers, Celtics). Still, Rondo was a huge part of that Celtic championship team. Also, Kidd and Terry were a huge part of the Dallas championship team. There is also the Spurs with Tony Parker.

    I don't think the Raptors could put together a Super-team so getting a really good PG seems mandatory.

  12. #9
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    If not now, then when????!!!

    Just seemed like an appropriate comment.

    carry on.

  13. #10
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    if i'm Masai i'd do everything i can to get another lotto pick for the sole purpose of getting one of them point guards. i'm fairly enamored with Exum but guys like Smart and Harrison are no slouches either.
    @jerboat

  14. #11
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    I have watched Exum play. He's more of a SG or combo guard.
    Last edited by stretch; Fri Nov 1st, 2013 at 06:05 PM.

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    Leave it to the Masai man.

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    We could've had Schroeder, or Larkin or MCW if Colangelo didn't trade for Lowry 2 years ago. *shakes head*

    That trade was so stupid. Bottomline - if you're a rebuilding team you dont trade your 1st round pick(top 10 potential) SPECIALLY for an unproven player.
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    We could've had Schroeder, or Larkin or MCW if Colangelo didn't trade for Lowry 2 years ago. *shakes head*

    That trade was so stupid. Bottomline - if you're a rebuilding team you dont trade your 1st round pick(top 10 potential) SPECIALLY for an unproven player.
    Ughh, don't remind me. Thankfully those dark days are over.

  18. #15
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    We could've had Schroeder, or Larkin or MCW if Colangelo didn't trade for Lowry 2 years ago. *shakes head*

    That trade was so stupid. Bottomline - if you're a rebuilding team you dont trade your 1st round pick(top 10 potential) SPECIALLY for an unproven player.
    MCW was picked by Philly who picked ahead of Toronto so take comfort in that.

    I was for the trade at the time because I was sipping BC's kool-aid big time. Accelerated rebuild yada yada yada. When that trade was made the belief was Bargnani was a near all-star and Lowry was another near all-star who just never got a chance due to freak health issues. Lowry was obtained with the same philosophy BC built this team: find a flawed piece who's strengths mask another flawed piece weaknesses.

    But here we are two years later with Lowry still on the roster and set to become a free agent yet many fans want to continue on the exact same path Colangelo put us on. I don't get it. The only difference is MU traded Bargnani which BC made publicly known he was willing and wanted to do.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    MCW was picked by Philly who picked ahead of Toronto so take comfort in that.

    I was for the trade at the time because I was sipping BC's kool-aid big time. Accelerated rebuild yada yada yada. When that trade was made the belief was Bargnani was a near all-star and Lowry was another near all-star who just never got a chance due to freak health issues. Lowry was obtained with the same philosophy BC built this team: find a flawed piece who's strengths mask another flawed piece weaknesses.

    But here we are two years later with Lowry still on the roster and set to become a free agent yet many fans want to continue on the exact same path Colangelo put us on. I don't get it. The only difference is MU traded Bargnani which BC made publicly known he was willing and wanted to do.
    this is a good point. what kind of offer was BC holding out for?
    @jerboat

  21. #17
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Ha, everybody's hating on Gay right now but how Kyle Lowry tonight though?? guy can't run a team. Turnovers in crucial time. Stupid shot selection.

    Said this last year. Lowry is a BACK UP PG at best. My opinion hasn't changed.
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    Andrew Harrison. Really like having a PG that's tall (6'5").
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  23. #19
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    I've said it from the beginning. We should have gone after Dragic. He can run the better far better than Lowry every can, his court vising and passing are leagues better and the def isn't that much worse than Lowry. On top of that we didn't need to give up a 1st to get Dragic. Just retarded that BC went for Lowry over him.

    I hope we try to trade for Dragic if we can. The Suns are rebuilding and might be willing to part with him.

  24. #20
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Andrew Harrison. Really like having a PG that's tall (6'5").
    Smart is 6'4"
    Exum 6'6"
    Micic 6'4"

    If you like tall PGs this is the draft for you!
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

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