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Thread: If JV in untouchable, why not run plays for him?

  1. #1
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    Default If JV in untouchable, why not run plays for him?

    I don't get this Untouchable status thing. If someone is untouchable, why would plays not be called for that person? Are we doing Barg all over again before that player truly prove something? I mean DD has been carrying the team on his back since pre season. He has worked hard to try to improve. Now an entire team is tradable? This early in the season? How are they to play their best and care about Toronto knowing that they are not really welcome long time? Yuit saying. I still think, like I did last year, that Casey is the problem. We'll of
    Course along with BC. You have all these offensive specialists but Casey still has the final say and we know how that works out.

    JV is good. But as of now, he is no Drummond. Who by the way, completely aired a free throw last night. Not even close. But anyway, let JV earn his place on the untraceable list. I think that by putting him on the untouchable list and him alone, that will only creat turmoil in the locker room. Try a new coach and see what happens. Then blow it up if it doesn't work. But I truly believe it will.

    Just saying!

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    Raptors Republic All-Star KazanTheMan's Avatar
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    Casey is a moron. Plain & simple.
    "Masai WILL win us a championship"
    - Tim Leiweke

    Ujiri: "One thing I can say for sure is that we will not be stuck in the middle."

    Reporter: "How can you say that?"

    Ujiri: "Because I can say that."

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    Raptors Republic Starter Shrub's Avatar
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    To the best of my knowledge, Ujiri didn't actually say that.
    It's not his style (or any GM's style?)

    It's a rumour.

    Anyway, are there more than 10 players in the NBA who are actually untouchable (and ultimately, only one)?

    All this talk means is that he's the one player they see enough potential in to really want to keep. Sensible enough, I say. Everyone else has their share of flaws, or just may not be Ujiri's style. If I were a GM, I would look at this team much the same way. I like DeRozan, but he's replaceable. JV, he's a unique center.

    Quite simply, it's potential.
    They don't want to trade him until they know what they've got (and clearly, they expect it to be something good).
    Last edited by Shrub; Sat Nov 2nd, 2013 at 01:48 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    It's obvious:

    He needs to start looking for fade-away 14-18 footers. That is Toronto Raptors basketball.

    Until he stops trying to get high-percentage looks on the low-block, there just isn't a place for him in our offence.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
    I don't get this Untouchable status thing. If someone is untouchable, why would plays not be called for that person? Are we doing Barg all over again before that player truly prove something? I mean DD has been carrying the team on his back since pre season. He has worked hard to try to improve. Now an entire team is tradable? This early in the season? How are they to play their best and care about Toronto knowing that they are not really welcome long time? Yuit saying. I still think, like I did last year, that Casey is the problem. We'll of
    Course along with BC. You have all these offensive specialists but Casey still has the final say and we know how that works out.

    JV is good. But as of now, he is no Drummond. Who by the way, completely aired a free throw last night. Not even close. But anyway, let JV earn his place on the untraceable list. I think that by putting him on the untouchable list and him alone, that will only creat turmoil in the locker room. Try a new coach and see what happens. Then blow it up if it doesn't work. But I truly believe it will.

    Just saying!
    How do you kill talent? Destroy its confidence.

    Casey worked wonders two years ago with ED, last year with Ross, and this year with Ross and JV it would appear.

    The reason why JV is untouchable, according to rumour, is because C is the hardest position to fill in the game. JV has shown, while still young and rough around the edges, that he can be at minimum a starting NBA C. You just don't trade that away - especially when the desire to be great and the motor is there.

    There is a premium for bigs - it is just the reality of the league.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    I was so pleased to see how JV was being used in Summer League ball. Now I am not unaware it was the SL but surely the intent was to make JV at least a low post offensive presence....like the first off. play last night.

    What happened to the plan? Or was it? Something's not quite kosher.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Obviously he sees that JV is nice and honest guy who won't backstab or blame you after you (coach) publicly dump the guy putting responsobility for teams losses. Casey was right to some extent after last game, and it's ok to hinder that, but this is what will happen in the future of this season, this is what happened in the past. I just dont respect Casey as a coach, man who does not have "balls" to admit his mistakes and change cannot coach a professional basketball team. Rudy Gay advertises new "Brick City" label for Toronto, and coach admits that it's ok, happens, while your rookie center works his ass off, fails, but tries playing against TOP 3 frontcourt, and it's ok to emphasize it, who cares, I won't lose my job because of a rookie. Im not praising JV, he's raw and not as talented as many think he is, but still he doesnt deserve that.

    We are not professional experts of basketball, or coaches. But when it bothers everyone you realize you don't have to be one in order to understand what's wrong with the team.
    #FREE

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    Quote KazanTheMan wrote: View Post
    Casey is a moron. Plain & simple.
    A+

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    Quote Shrub wrote: View Post
    To the best of my knowledge, Ujiri didn't actually say that.
    It's not his style (or any GM's style?)

    It's a rumour.

    Anyway, are there more than 10 players in the NBA who are actually untouchable (and ultimately, only one)?

    All this talk means is that he's the one player they see enough potential in to really want to keep. Sensible enough, I say. Everyone else has their share of flaws, or just may not be Ujiri's style. If I were a GM, I would look at this team much the same way. I like DeRozan, but he's replaceable. JV, he's a unique center.

    Quite simply, it's potential.
    They don't want to trade him until they know what they've got (and clearly, they expect it to be something good).
    I get what you are saying, however, don't you think than Ross also have potential? Barg also had potential. According to everyone.

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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    The logical conclusion is that either the regime thinks that Valanciunas cannot score the ball, even with plays being run for him, or that they think it's more important to get Derozan and Gay the ball as much as possible.
    He showed that he can shoot the ball. Just not getting it.

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    Quote RandomGuy wrote: View Post
    Obviously he sees that JV is nice and honest guy who won't backstab or blame you after you (coach) publicly dump the guy putting responsobility for teams losses. Casey was right to some extent after last game, and it's ok to hinder that, but this is what will happen in the future of this season, this is what happened in the past. I just dont respect Casey as a coach, man who does not have "balls" to admit his mistakes and change cannot coach a professional basketball team. Rudy Gay advertises new "Brick City" label for Toronto, and coach admits that it's ok, happens, while your rookie center works his ass off, fails, but tries playing against TOP 3 frontcourt, and it's ok to emphasize it, who cares, I won't lose my job because of a rookie. Im not praising JV, he's raw and not as talented as many think he is, but still he doesnt deserve that.

    We are not professional experts of basketball, or coaches. But when it bothers everyone you realize you don't have to be one in order to understand what's wrong with the team.
    Honesty? You going with that? There are and have been many honest, hard working players who played for Toronto and we're let go.

  14. #12
    Raptors Republic Starter Shrub's Avatar
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    Quote Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
    I get what you are saying, however, don't you think than Ross also have potential? Barg also had potential. According to everyone.
    In the case of Ross, his skill set is replaceable even if he reaches his ceiling.
    In addition, I would suggest his work ethic and development are not encouraging.
    In the case of Bargnani, it's understandable that he once had untouchable status (and would have on most if not all teams).
    Bargs was a gamble that didn't pay off - Dirk being the example of what could have been.

    The real problem with Bargs was Colangelo's stubborness.
    Failing to sell high.
    Failing to cut his losses.
    Failing to see what he really had on his hands.

    Me, I would rather take the chance on unique, transcendent talent any day.

    Like we hear time and again, superstars are drafted, not traded.

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    Quote Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View Post
    Honesty? You going with that? There are and have been many honest, hard working players who played for Toronto and we're let go.
    You dont get what Im saying. Totally different stuff, I meant that Casey's using him as a scapegoat.
    #FREE

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    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    Maybe, you guys should actually listen to what coach Casey is saying when he talks about Jonas. When everyone was saying that he'll have a breakout year after Summer League, they should remember that he was always the biggest player on the floor. Casey was going to use him on offense, the same as last year since the kid has almost 0 post moves.

    Look, if you are struggling to get deep position in the post, have one post move (jump right hook), bobbling passes obviously his offense isn't ready yet. He is also getting lost a little too much on defense. Expect the team, to be finishing most games at least early on in the season with small ball line-ups.

    People complaining about coach Casey, are probably upset that he yanked Ross after Mayo got consecutive 3's and then Fields shut him down. Ross and Jonas aren't prime time ready yet and Casey is coaching for win now mode.
    -"You canít run from me. I mean, my heart donít bleed Kool-Aid."
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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    Maybe, you guys should actually listen to what coach Casey is saying when he talks about Jonas. When everyone was saying that he'll have a breakout year after Summer League, they should remember that he was always the biggest player on the floor. Casey was going to use him on offense, the same as last year since the kid has almost 0 post moves.

    Look, if you are struggling to get deep position in the post, have one post move (jump right hook), bobbling passes obviously his offense isn't ready yet. He is also getting lost a little too much on defense. Expect the team, to be finishing most games at least early on in the season with small ball line-ups.

    People complaining about coach Casey, are probably upset that he yanked Ross after Mayo got consecutive 3's and then Fields shut him down. Ross and Jonas aren't prime time ready yet and Casey is coaching for win now mode.
    Buddy has got a point. Once Jonas starts adjusting a little better, he'll start getting the minutes and trust. And that my friends is when the Raptors will be beasting

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Continuing to live up to the Bill Cartwright comparison.


    Random thought on Casey/JV and why development will be stunted:

    HE IS NOT TYSON CHANDLER

    Casey was brought in to develop a team around a Dirk-lite.
    Chandler was to Dirk like JV was suppose to be like Bargnani.
    Unfortunately, CHandler was in the league for 12 years before he became the breakout player he has become in the last 3 years - in a contract year no less.
    JV needs a lot of experience to have a hope of becoming the defensive anchor Chandler is.
    However, JV is a much better offensive player.

    Those saying JV has no post game are confusing positioning and opportunity with ability. He has shown ability to go middle, back to his left hand, hit a jumper, drive, and hit his free throws.

    This team and roster still smells like Colangelo.
    I can't wait for shake up to really start anew.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Buddy has got a point. Once Jonas starts adjusting a little better, he'll start getting the minutes and trust. And that my friends is when the Raptors will be beasting
    It is a catch 22 or a chicken and egg riddle

    If he learns he'll get the minutes.
    If he doesn't get the minutes he'll never learn.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  22. #18
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It is a catch 22 or a chicken and egg riddle

    If he learns he'll get the minutes.
    If he doesn't get the minutes he'll never learn.
    Here's how you eat the egg without destroying the chicken. Come up with a couple of options for JV when he gets the ball in the post, so he has an option or two. Then he won't feel like he has got to go to the basket no matter what. Maybe they have worked on this in practice, and maybe JV is just too dense to remember, but I doubt it.

    Here's another option. Work with JV to develop a couple of alternative moves when the D counters is first initiative.

    This is on the coaching staff.

  23. #19
    Raptors Republic Starter Shrub's Avatar
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    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    Maybe, you guys should actually listen to what coach Casey is saying when he talks about Jonas. People complaining about coach Casey, are probably upset that he yanked Ross after Mayo got consecutive 3's and then Fields shut him down. Ross and Jonas aren't prime time ready yet and Casey is coaching for win now mode.
    Some of us are listening, we just don't agree.
    In my case, I feel a lot of his reasons for not using Valanciunas are due to his lack of creativity as a coach.
    That, and that he is constantly on the defensive, matching up to other teams instead of imposing our strategy on them.

    I don't believe we can win without JV.
    Not in any meaningful way.
    And frankly, our offense is not even close to where it should be in terms of utilizing him efficiently.
    Not even close.
    We need him playing, it's worth it.

    Nobody on the court for crunch-time of last night's game were prime time ready.
    It was horrible.

    I say let him bobble the ball.
    Let him bobble it right out the door if he can't learn to catch it, but no more coddling.
    Put him out there, and learn how to use him, Coach.

  24. #20
    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It is a catch 22 or a chicken and egg riddle

    If he learns he'll get the minutes.
    If he doesn't get the minutes he'll never learn.
    Now, Hibbert doesn't have a diverse offensive set of moves, but If I'm remembering his development correctly, it's similar to Jonas (Brought along slowly and not made to sink or swim on a bad team). But, Jonas is much further along than where Hibbert was his first two years. Casey is talking maybe December, when he can trust Jonas to be the lone big on the floor anchoring the defense at the end of games, not next year or later.

    And the lack of touches for Jonas, has as much to do if not more with the other starters he plays with.
    -"You canít run from me. I mean, my heart donít bleed Kool-Aid."
    -"ďI ainít no diva! I donít have no blond hair, red hair. Iím Reggie Evans.Ē

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