If JV in untouchable, why not run plays for him?

[Superjudge]

Few things here, as mentioned above, there could be some showcasing happening. Also, JV is all about potential, he hasn't looked that great all the time so he won't see the ball, BUT that I feel is more on his mates than on the coach. don't rule out the fact that there is simply no controlling Rudy Gay or Kyle Lowry. rudy ain't giving up shots, and Lowry ain't looking for other peoples shots. So unless it was Shaq down there calling for the rock, it ain't going there, ever.

[mcHAPPY]

I don't agree with your assessment of Chandler. His offensive numbers improved when the Bulls dumped him on New Orleans and he became the business end of Chris Paul pick and rolls. He was given up on due to injury, and Dallas helped him get his mojo back, but he's essentially remained the same player going back to the beginning. Chicago just didn't have anyone to run the pnr with him. They'd drafted Jay Williams a couple years earlier to be their pg, but a traffic accident ended his career. There was no justification for the Bulls to prefer Ben Wallace to Chandler, as Bill Simmons pointed out at the time -- not that there's anything wrong with Wallace, in fact that kind of beefy interior defender is exactly what the Raptors have needed for so many year.

I don't recall chandler having an offensive game outside of lobs and recipient of dishes on cp3 drives.

[mcHAPPY]

You call 6 shots per game an "offensive game"? Tyson Chandler and players like him don't need an offensive game. He fills a role that is crucial to winning. He's that rarity in NBA basketball, a player that doesn't need the ball to affect the game's outcome.

That is kind of my point.

Right now JV is getting those 6 shots - except he is getting them on the offensive glass and post up to start game.

Chandler is not JV; JV is not Chandler. The 2012-13 Raptors are not the 2010-11 Mavericks.

It was my opinion Casey is using him/treating him like Chandler when he is not that dominant defensive presence at this time and he can contribute so much more on the offensive end.

Again JV is nowhere near the defensive impact Chandler is currently... nor was Chandler the defensive impact he is now in his 2nd year either.

JV has to adapt, learn, and grow but I think Casey should be doing the same thing to maximize JV in game situations.

[Fully]

It's another one of the drawbacks of having one foot in win now mode and one foot in youth development mode.

Casey is coaching for his job right now so he's rightfully trying to win every game possible. Does dumping the ball down into Jonas 15 times a game or letting him play through his share of mistakes on the defensive end do that? No, probably not. Should he be getting those opportunities for the benefit of himself and the franchise moving forward? Absolutely yes. The same concept applies to Ross and Acy, although to a lesser extent.

Broken record time: The primes of the team's most important pieces do not line up at all. And beyond that, I don't see how Jonas will be able to reach his full potential with the current team's make up (iso shooters on each wing, a shot happy PG, coach that gives him short leash)... and yet most people who want this team to stay the course list Jonas becoming a dominant centre as their number one reason why this squad can reach the next level. It just doesn't make sense.

[SitnonDfence]

How quickly we forget what coddling a 7 foot tall lottery pick gets you.

Frankly, JV isnt playing well and is most likely being held accountable. In three games where he should have been able to dominate inside, he was getting pushed off his spots much too easily by undersized MORE EXPERIENCED bigs. And this is before we take into consideration the matchup issues he provided on the other end of the floor. Considering he is supposed to be a mobile athletic big his close outs were pretty lax.

If a big man wants touches in the post, hes got to earn them, carve out a spot on the low block, seal off your man and then if the wings look you off, you talk to coach who has probably already noticed whats going on.

[Joey]

Found this stat interesting...

JV has attempted 14 shots in 25 first-quarter minutes, but just seven in 40 minutes after the first quarter.

[golden]

Bold 1: Why top 3? If you open it up to teams who drafted their star players, the results are a little more interesting don't think? Dirk was a draft night trade and #9; same with Kobe at #13. Wade was #5 and Paul Pierce #10 - you don't get LBJ/Bosh without Wade nor Garnett/Allen without either. So if we alter your narrative we just included 10 more of the 28 championships.

And why 1985? I know it is because that is when the lottery came in but prior to that the top talent was still found at the top of the draft regardless how it was determined who selected. If you are going to include championships won after 1985, shouldn't you include star players drafted prior to 1985? Michael Jordan drafted 3rd and Hakeem 2nd in 1984 accounts for 8 championships. Pistons of 80's was built through draft with Thomas taken at #2 - that is 2 more. Lakers drafted Magic in 1979 at #1 - that is 3 more championships after 1985. So again altering the narrative that includes another 13 championships.

Including the Spurs as you did previous gives us another 4 championships.

So now we're up to 27 of 28 championships accounted for through a lottery draft pick and 20 of 27 through a top 5 pick. The only odd ball in the championship group since 1985 is the 2004 Pistons.




As for this year, you listed the following as championship contenders:
Miami: they drafted DWade. There is no big 3 without Wade drafted in Miami.
Brooklyn: actually drafted Lopez and traded draft picks and expirings as the main pieces to acquire their talent (Williams, Johnson, Pierce, Garnett)
Clippers: first overall pick Griffin leads to Paul who was obtained by trading draft picks and former lottery picks (Aminu, Gordon).
Rockets: prospects drafted, draft picks, and expring led to Harden. There is no Howard without Harden.
Indiana: draft picks
New York: Since Donnie Walsh left, what a mess. Great example of what not to do.
Warriors: drafted Thompson, Curry, Barnes - kind of important to their success right now no?
Grizz: Conley #4 and you nailed the rest.
OKC: draft - got me.

All are enjoying their success as a direct or indirect result of the draft.


Here is the reality:



If you want to include the assets used to acquire all-NBA talent, the draft is likely pushing 90% for all-NBA talent acquisition. The reality is draft picks or prospects (usually drafted high) are the foundation of any All-NBA talent acquisition.

LOL. Directly or indirectly through the draft? Talk about broadening the scope. Save for very few cases, ALL players enter the NBA through the draft, so obviously every transaction will be directly or indirectly connected to the draft, no?

That is some serious weasel language there. Lawyer or politician grade. LOL.

[ebrian]

re: If JV is untouchable, why not run plays for him?

Because there's 3-4 guys that need to be traded and if everything runs through JV, then those 3-4 guys will never get traded.

[psrs1]

re: If JV is untouchable, why not run plays for him?

Because there's 3-4 guys that need to be traded and if everything runs through JV, then those 3-4 guys will never get traded.

Is the goal to win or trade and tank?

[psrs1]

I don't get this Untouchable status thing. If someone is untouchable, why would plays not be called for that person? Are we doing Barg all over again before that player truly prove something? I mean DD has been carrying the team on his back since pre season. He has worked hard to try to improve. Now an entire team is tradable? This early in the season? How are they to play their best and care about Toronto knowing that they are not really welcome long time? Yuit saying. I still think, like I did last year, that Casey is the problem. We'll of
Course along with BC. You have all these offensive specialists but Casey still has the final say and we know how that works out.

JV is good. But as of now, he is no Drummond. Who by the way, completely aired a free throw last night. Not even close. But anyway, let JV earn his place on the untraceable list. I think that by putting him on the untouchable list and him alone, that will only creat turmoil in the locker room. Try a new coach and see what happens. Then blow it up if it doesn't work. But I truly believe it will.

Just saying!

In agreement. Casey needs to go big not small in the fourth.

[golden]

Is the goal to win or trade and tank?

Houston has shown that it is possible to win and at the same time acquire elite talent, without obvious tanking. In the past 10 years the Rockets have only 1 season under .500 (just barely). They have mainly used savvy trades to acquire draft assets from OTHER teams (like the Raptors), as well as free agency (Lin, Asik, Howard). The Harden trade was a brilliant case of having the foresight to accumulate the assets (while remaining competitive) and then being opportunistic in a trade scenario. Getting Howard, was again, opportunistic, in that when Dwight was in Orlando he was pursued hard by Houston, but showed no interest. In one short season, the whole landscape changed completely (i.e. bad experience with Kobe and D'Antoni, combined with Houston picking up Harden) and all of sudden Houston was competitive. Again, without tanking or as some would call it - the mediocrity treadmill. And please don't say that Houston is one of the preferred big market destinations for free agents. Until the Harden trade, definitely not.

[mcHAPPY]

Houston has shown that it is possible to win and at the same time acquire elite talent, without obvious tanking. In the past 10 years the Rockets have only 1 season under .500 (just barely). They have mainly used savvy trades to acquire draft assets from OTHER teams (like the Raptors), as well as free agency (Lin, Asik, Howard). The Harden trade was a brilliant case of having the foresight to accumulate the assets (while remaining competitive) and then being opportunistic in a trade scenario. Getting Howard, was again, opportunistic, in that when Dwight was in Orlando he was pursued hard by Houston, but showed no interest. In one short season, the whole landscape changed completely (i.e. bad experience with Kobe and D'Antoni, combined with Houston picking up Harden) and all of sudden Houston was competitive. Again, without tanking or as some would call it - the mediocrity treadmill. And please don't say that Houston is one of the preferred big market destinations for free agents. Until the Harden trade, definitely not.

Houston had cap space and assets to work with.

Toronto at this point in time has neither.

[special1]

Maybe, you guys should actually listen to what coach Casey is saying when he talks about Jonas. When everyone was saying that he'll have a breakout year after Summer League, they should remember that he was always the biggest player on the floor. Casey was going to use him on offense, the same as last year since the kid has almost 0 post moves.

Look, if you are struggling to get deep position in the post, have one post move (jump right hook), bobbling passes obviously his offense isn't ready yet. He is also getting lost a little too much on defense. Expect the team, to be finishing most games at least early on in the season with small ball line-ups.

People complaining about coach Casey, are probably upset that he yanked Ross after Mayo got consecutive 3's and then Fields shut him down. Ross and Jonas aren't prime time ready yet and Casey is coaching for win now mode.

+1 (the bold) - JV and Ross are not ready for the minutes that posters are expecting them to play. Please be patient with JV as he will take a bit longer than most posters on here expect. I fear that many posters are unrealistic and expecting too much from him. JV WILL get abused by more experienced centers. Its just the way things go....he will get better year after year. Geez - for someone just starting his second year, we are putting him on some high pedestal. He hasn't done ANYTHING so far in the NBA to warrant this pedestal. He's VERY young and has A LOT of potential.....Just relax and be patient.

He WILL eventually EARN his minutes if he's who we think he could be.

[special1]

This is a fairly arbitrary condition. Expand it to the entire first round, and the list superstars drafted by their own team who won a championship with them grows to:

Wade, Dirk, Pierce, Rondo, Kobe, Parker

which happens to cover every team that's won since 1999.

And then you can go back further with Jordan, Pippen, Olajuwan, Thomas, Dumars, Magic, Bird, McHale...

It actually seems literally impossible to win a championship without at least one superstar that you yourself have drafted...

Kobe was actually drafted by the charlotte hornets and traded to the Lakers

[Raptorsss]

In agreement. Casey needs to go big not small in the fourth.

You do realize that the biggest reason we won last game, is that Casey forced Drew to match his small ball line-up where the Raptors had the obvious advantage. Did you not witness our inability to cover Pachulia and Ilyasova? Who didn't come back in the game when we went small. That it is much easier to drive to the basket and draw fouls when you don't have a big clogging up the lane. Casey out-coached Drew and we won.

Now, not to repeat myself when it comes to Casey and Valanciunas. Please, watch the end of game media scrum, if you haven't already.