One Power Forward Away from Contending

[white men can't jump]

You prefer Horford over Love??

Yes, in the sense of building a team starting from where the Raps are now. Love is not an easy piece to build around. He'll be making more money than Horford, not just now but likely on their next respective contracts. Love not only demands a high salary, but also a fair chunk of the offence would have to go through him. He's also not a great defensive player, and pairing him with Jonas right now would likely result in a very porous defence.

Is Love a more natural fit offensively because he's a shooter? Maybe. Is Horford a better defender, leader and teammate? Most likely. Horford can be that veteran who's still in his prime that can help develop a young team the right way. Just because they have a true C, doesn't mean they need a stretch 4. Guys just need to be able to knock down the midrange shot, which both JV and Horford can do.

*Also I can't stress enough the kind of "makes his teammates better" guy Horford is. He has that kind of impact where everyone seems to not only play a bit better, but also play a bit more properly with him on the court. And I think the Raps really need that, especially for the defensive end. They need a guy who can truly help teach Jonas how to anchor a D. I think of it a lot like when Robinson and Duncan were paired early in Duncan's career. Having Robinson as an anchor made it easier for Duncan to learn, and reduced the pressure on him for his first couple of years. I can't think of a guy in the league now who would be as good in that sense as Horford...

[drunkmunky]

Love gets hurt, Horford is solid and proven.

[white men can't jump]

Love gets hurt, Horford is solid and proven.

This too.

[Primer]

No way the Hawks trade Horford for anything we have. He's the cornerstone of their franchise. It'd be like Miami trading Lebron or Chicago trading Rose. Not impossible, but not gonna happen for the "stuff" we have. Maybe if we included a boatload of draft picks, but we've already seen where that road leads us.

Monroe on the other hand is someone who almost certainly will be available this season (if he's not available right now). Not saying he's the answer, but he is actually realistic. Detroit might have interest in Gay or Derozan and it would be easy to make the salaries work either way without including anyone Detroit would wanna keep. If we could get Monroe for either of those guys I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[white men can't jump]

No way the Hawks trade Horford for anything we have. He's the cornerstone of their franchise. It'd be like Miami trading Lebron or Chicago trading Rose. Not impossible, but not gonna happen for the "stuff" we have. Maybe if we included a boatload of draft picks, but we've already seen where that road leads us.

Monroe on the other hand is someone who almost certainly will be available this season (if he's not available right now). Not saying he's the answer, but he is actually realistic. Detroit might have interest in Gay or Derozan and it would be easy to make the salaries work either way without including anyone Detroit would wanna keep. If we could get Monroe for either of those guys I'd do it in a heartbeat.

I'm not sold on Monroe mostly because I don't like how he fits defensively. First of all, while not atrocious, he's hardly a good defender. He's had trouble being solid at both PF and C. He's a nice offensive player, and that's about it. The big thing about him is he's young, so he brings that promise that we'd hope he can become better. If he can't, most likely I'd see him as an asset they acquire and will flip again pretty soon.

I don't know how realistic Horford is. He is the cornerstone in Atlanta, but htey really have garbage after him. If they traded Horford now, they'd probably be lucky to win 10 more games all year. So they're really far from doing anything significant, especially if they stay on the treadmill, and Horford is getting too old for half-assed rebuilds. I could realistically see either party deciding to end the relationship, even if it is unlikely.

[Rapstor4Life]

Kevin Love is also a whiny bitch.

[mcHAPPY]

How do you get Horford, Love, or Aldridge keeping Gay, DD, and JV?

They might be good free agent targets in 2016. Right now it is impossible to even have a discussion based on reality. There are no enticing draft picks, no expiring contracts, and Ross would be the only real prospect to flaunt.

[white men can't jump]

How do you get Horford, Love, or Aldridge keeping Gay, DD, and JV?

They might be good free agent targets in 2016. Right now it is impossible to even have a discussion based on reality. There are no enticing draft picks, no expiring contracts, and Ross would be the only real prospect to flaunt.

Admittedly I'm just ignoring the original post. Obviously to get any guy the Raps would likely need to give up something fairly significant, and it would signal that the team would start to look quite different. That's fine though, as long as they don't have to give up JV or totally compromise their draft assets.

[Raptorsss]

This is a tenforthewin thread, you lose just by posting in it. But, we are just that bored I guess.

[Primer]

I'm not sold on Monroe mostly because I don't like how he fits defensively. First of all, while not atrocious, he's hardly a good defender. He's had trouble being solid at both PF and C. He's a nice offensive player, and that's about it. The big thing about him is he's young, so he brings that promise that we'd hope he can become better. If he can't, most likely I'd see him as an asset they acquire and will flip again pretty soon.

I don't know how realistic Horford is. He is the cornerstone in Atlanta, but htey really have garbage after him. If they traded Horford now, they'd probably be lucky to win 10 more games all year. So they're really far from doing anything significant, especially if they stay on the treadmill, and Horford is getting too old for half-assed rebuilds. I could realistically see either party deciding to end the relationship, even if it is unlikely.

Ever heard of a thing called rebounding? Because Monroe is one of the best rebounders in the league. He's currently averaging 11 boards a game and has averaged nearly 10 the two years prior. His defensive rebounding is especially impressive (23.6% 3 years in a row), which is better than anyone on the Raptors. How can he be a bad defender if he grabs such a high percentage of defensive rebounds? That ability in and of itself makes him a decent defender. He's also had a very good DRtg the past 3 years, which is difficult to accomplish on such a bad team if you're not a decent defender. At worst Monroe is an average defender. Combine that with being an above average scorer and rebounder and I don't see why you're so down on him.

He's only 23 years old and if we traded for him we'd have him as a restricted free agent next year, which with the new CBA has led to some very affordable signings. I could see a Monroe and JV pairing being extremely successful in the future and think fans should give it some more thought instead of pining for older players (Horford, Love, Aldridge) who are extremely unlikely to end up here and would take max contracts to make it happen (e.g. way more expensive than Monroe).

[white men can't jump]

Ever heard of a thing called rebounding? Because Monroe is one of the best rebounders in the league. He's currently averaging 11 boards a game and has averaged nearly 10 the two years prior. His defensive rebounding is especially impressive (23.6% 3 years in a row), which is better than anyone on the Raptors. How can he be a bad defender if he grabs such a high percentage of defensive rebounds? That ability in and of itself makes him a decent defender. He's also had a very good DRtg the past 3 years, which is difficult to accomplish on such a bad team if you're not a decent defender. At worst Monroe is an average defender. Combine that with being an above average scorer and rebounder and I don't see why you're so down on him.

He's only 23 years old and if we traded for him we'd have him as a restricted free agent next year, which with the new CBA has led to some very affordable signings. I could see a Monroe and JV pairing being extremely successful in the future and think fans should give it some more thought instead of pining for older players (Horford, Love, Aldridge) who are extremely unlikely to end up here and would take max contracts to make it happen (e.g. way more expensive than Monroe).

Here's a nice piece on the Pistons by Lowe...And I like that he doesn't rely just on raw stats to make his point (not like Lowe is anti-stats) because stats are so far from being telling when it comes to D. I suggest clicking the link if you also want to see some photographic evidence mentioned in this snippet.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...etroit-pistons

Monroe is a very good offensive player, but he's a glaring liability on defense in a league getting smaller and quicker. He's a turnstile trying to contain the pick-and-roll out on the floor — a mess of bad footwork, poor timing, lazy reaches, and bad choices. When Detroit has him hang back at the foul line, ball handlers can zip around him with an easy crossover or launch wide-open jumpers as Monroe, petrified at giving up a rim run, retreats a step farther than most bigs would dare — often with his arms down. Pistons fans complained, with some justification, about Lawrence Frank's reluctance to play Monroe and Drummond together for much of last season, but Monroe's total inability to guard stretchier power forwards factored into that choice — just as it should factor into Detroit's evaluation of things now.

When the Pistons asked Monroe to attack the ball higher on the floor, the mess was almost worse. Point guards can juke Monroe with laughable ease by faking toward a screener, watching Monroe lurch in that direction, and then crossing over the other way and into an unpatrolled lane. Monroe is often late in jumping out above a screen, meaning his momentum is going too hard the wrong way (toward half court) as the opposing point guard revs up to turn the corner. And when Detroit has asked him to hedge sideways, as in the still below, Monroe often arrives too late to cut off the ball handler: (IMAGE HERE)

His off-ball defense is similarly unintuitive. Monroe wants to help and has a rudimentary sense of where he should be as the chess pieces move around the floor, but he's unsure of himself and prone to fatal hesitations and bouts of confusion. He has struggled to develop any chemistry with his big-man partners, so that a lot of Detroit possessions end with late help rotations or both bigs chasing one opposing big man — each under the impression the other would be elsewhere on the floor. Watching film of Detroit's defense basically amounts to sitting through an hours-long reel of dunks, shrugged shoulders, and inattentive help; only eight teams allowed more shots at the rim last season, and only three allowed opponents to shoot a higher percentage than the ghastly 61.1 percent Detroit allowed.

To use one example of a simple play with which Detroit and Monroe had depressingly chronic issues: Monroe in the below photo (standing at the right edge of the paint) is only just realizing Nicolas Batum, having caught the ball after flying around a Joel Freeland screen and drawing Freeland's man onto him, is about to hit Freeland for an easy dunk: (another image here)

Most of Monroe's issues are common among young big men. Drummond shares some of the same poor habits. But Monroe has three years under his belt, he's up for a big-money extension, he's shown very little (if any) improvement as a defender in the NBA, and he lacks Drummond's motor or athleticism. A Smith-Drummond front-court pairing has massive potential on defense, but it raises the challenge of timing the next franchise peak with a roster built around front-court partners nearly eight years apart in age

[...]

But Drummond projects as a game-changing defender. Monroe does not, and offense-only big men on their second NBA contracts tend to become drains on a team's salary cap who also place limits on their team's ceiling

Note the bolds, especially the last one.

[planetmars]

Horford is probably my favourite PF in the league as well. Seems to have a nice head on his shoulders.. can play both D and O.. and can play center. Plus he has one of the best contracts in the league at only $12M per.

Not sure why Atlanta would want to trade him.. even if they were rebuilding, having a young center at a decent contract is a good thing... so trying to pry him away would be difficult. They would probably want Toronto's 2014 pick as a start. Probably DeRozan and Amir as well.

Hopefully he's interested in Toronto when he becomes a free agent in 2016.. I mean the Blue Jays have had a lot of Dominicans play for them. Perhaps we ask Bautista and Encarnacion to vouch for Toronto

[The Great One]

After the Raptors VS Heat Game, all i can summarize is the fact that DeRozan, Gay, and Valanciunas look like the players to move forward with, all these three players can contribute significant minutes for the Raptors. I was wondering if we can acquire another PF in the near future or this year so we can have a team going forward. Personally, I would like Ujiri to target his fellow draftee: Kenneth Faried, don't know what Denver wants from us and let's hope none of the players mentioned above are traded for Faried. We can also go after LaMarcus Aldridge, he seems like a interesting player.

Seriously?

[Axel]

Love will go to the Lakers. He's a UCLA guy.

[Fully]

If that power forward is Lebron James then I agree completely.