View Poll Results: after 2 back to back double digits blow lead should casey be fired

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  • yes

    20 76.92%
  • no

    6 23.08%
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Thread: Will Masai fire Casey ?

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I think his career as a head coach is done regardless.
    Yeah, it's pretty obvious just watching the games. IMO you shouldn't be a head coach if your mindset is so one-dimensional.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Haven't you seen enough youth benched under Casey?

    Practice time is great and important but there is no substitute for in game action.

    I don't want to enter JV and Ross' 3rd year still talking about their potential. Give them 77 games and you'll know what you have.

    You have to remember Nurse is not Casey's guy. Outside of Sterner, the coaching staff was gutted. These coaches were all brought in by Ujiri.
    I agree that I want the youth to play more, but I don't think that has to be a coaching decision. Once MU trades away players like Gay, the coach will likely be forced to play the young guys regardless. Gay isn't bringing back a savior in a trade, so Ross is likely to get a bump in minutes once he is gone. Also, less small ball opportunities with Gay gone.

    The fact that Nurse isn't Casey's guy actually gives me more confidence. Nurse knows who he works for, and it isn't Casey. Nurse will have no problem working with a guy outside of Casey's instructions, because he knows that as long as he is doing what he was hired for, Casey can't touch him. If Casey tried to make a deal of it, everyone knows who MU is going to turf and who he is going to keep.

    I understand why you feel making the move makes sense, I just think that Nurse will be an option regardless. Unless some other team makes a coaching change and tries to hire Nurse, then the Raps can keep him in their back pocket. It's kind of like the Derozan extension, why make the move if you don't have to? If the new look roster doesn't entice an established pedigreed coach, then Nurse is ready to go. If SVG is interested, then Nurse can continue to work as an assistant or not, if we land SVG I honestly don't care what happens to Nurse.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Nurse might (and I emphasize 'might') be a decent head coach one day. Maybe Masai is saving that card for when he has a balanced roster to work with, rather than set him up to fail with the current group.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  5. #44
    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    I think they should wait at least a month into the season to do this kind of things. Who knows what's going on in the locker room? Casey probably know things we don't, afterall he's the head coach. Maybe the approach is to make JV take full confidence before throwing him on the court full time. As I see it, JV is still getting better, each and every day and game.

    It's only 5 games in.
    yes but an easy fix is Gay needs 5 less shots a game and JV needs 5 more.
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

  6. #45
    Raptors Republic All-Star KazanTheMan's Avatar
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    I just need SOMETHING to happen, because I'm tired of not knowing what the plan is. I just can't tell if Casey is truly a moron, or if he's being told to subtly tank. Masai, you gotta give us a sign...
    "Masai WILL win us a championship"
    - Tim Leiweke

    Ujiri: "One thing I can say for sure is that we will not be stuck in the middle."

    Reporter: "How can you say that?"

    Ujiri: "Because I can say that."

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  8. #46
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    You'll have your sign in about 20 games.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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  10. #47
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    Quote KazanTheMan wrote: View Post
    I just need SOMETHING to happen, because I'm tired of not knowing what the plan is. I just can't tell if Casey is truly a moron, or if he's being told to subtly tank. Masai, you gotta give us a sign...
    The sign? Maybe his weird choice of having his best interior offensive and defensive big sit out all of the 4th qtrs. no matter the scoreboard or matchups. Now, why would he do this so consistently.

  11. #48
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    I agree that I want the youth to play more, but I don't think that has to be a coaching decision. Once MU trades away players like Gay, the coach will likely be forced to play the young guys regardless. Gay isn't bringing back a savior in a trade, so Ross is likely to get a bump in minutes once he is gone. Also, less small ball opportunities with Gay gone.

    The fact that Nurse isn't Casey's guy actually gives me more confidence. Nurse knows who he works for, and it isn't Casey. Nurse will have no problem working with a guy outside of Casey's instructions, because he knows that as long as he is doing what he was hired for, Casey can't touch him. If Casey tried to make a deal of it, everyone knows who MU is going to turf and who he is going to keep.

    I understand why you feel making the move makes sense, I just think that Nurse will be an option regardless. Unless some other team makes a coaching change and tries to hire Nurse, then the Raps can keep him in their back pocket. It's kind of like the Derozan extension, why make the move if you don't have to? If the new look roster doesn't entice an established pedigreed coach, then Nurse is ready to go. If SVG is interested, then Nurse can continue to work as an assistant or not, if we land SVG I honestly don't care what happens to Nurse.
    By the way, no conflict or snark coming from me. I like the back and forth.

    I agree with all your wrote except the bold. I'm not sure. I mean last year he rode Alan Anderson while Ross was on the bench. ED spent more time on the pine than in the game. JV is the best big on the team and he sits more than he plays. I don't think that can be a given. Casey does not like youth.... at all. He is probably the worst possible coach you could have while trying to develop players.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  12. #49
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i forgot how much he buried Ed

    i kind of forgot about Ed in general, actually

    Ed
    @jerboat

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  14. #50
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    i forgot how much he buried Ed

    i kind of forgot about Ed in general, actually

    Ed
    Did Casey bury Ed? In the 111 games Davis played under Casey, he averaged ~ 24 mpg.

    In Memphis, he's averaging a whopping 15 mpg through 41 games.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  15. #51
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    By the way, no conflict or snark coming from me. I like the back and forth.

    I agree with all your wrote except the bold. I'm not sure. I mean last year he rode Alan Anderson while Ross was on the bench. ED spent more time on the pine than in the game. JV is the best big on the team and he sits more than he plays. I don't think that can be a given. Casey does not like youth.... at all. He is probably the worst possible coach you could have while trying to develop players.
    Super agree. It's rare we disagree on a topic and I get to school you

    You're could be right about the vets, but again, that is where I'm putting this on MU. Bring back players that are either young enough that they couldn't be considered vets to play over a young player who knows our system (advantage of having 0 rookies this year), or players so horribly bad on expiring, that Casey won't have a choice. Even Aaron Gray hasn't been getting the DC love lately (thank god!).

    So I suppose it really depends on who you are bringing back. Would Casey play Ben Gordon over Ross? Gordon is an under-sized shooting guard, who doesn't play defence and really can't shoot anymore. Ross has been playing better D and is at least working to improve. Really, if you bring in Gordon, you could work out a buy-out, completely removing him from the equation.

    Again, using Gordon for Gay as the example, without Gay, who do you use for small-ball? Fields? Maybe, but that means that Ross is coming in likely anyway to play on the wing. Less small-ball should mean more minutes for JV. Also, I think the JV minutes thing is a little distorted anyway. His MP in 5 games are: 31, 17,16, 27, 27. The Atlanta-Milwaukee game aside, 27-31 minutes is a good number for a young big, still learning the game while playing with 2 vets (Amir 30MPG, and Hansbourgh 19MPG) who are going to get some minutes. JV is getting minutes, they just aren't ideally spread out by quarter and, more importantly to his development, the offence (aka Gay and DD) is completely ignoring him as the game progresses. I'd like Gay and DD are playing hero ball, that to me is the bigger issue than Casey's minute distribution.

    At the end of the day, I think the risk/reward factor is better with Nurse being retained as an assistant for the season, with the intention of being brought back as an assisstant or as Plan B. If you promote him, then hire someone else, would he come back? I think most people agree that Nurse might be a very good coach someday, I just worry that those days are a few years away, so better to keep him "in house" for now.

  16. #52
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    Quote KazanTheMan wrote: View Post
    I just need SOMETHING to happen, because I'm tired of not knowing what the plan is. I just can't tell if Casey is truly a moron, or if he's being told to subtly tank. Masai, you gotta give us a sign...
    We need a sign now....

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  18. #53
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Even Doug Smith couldn't defend Casey today. That decision last night was so bewildering, so obviously wrong that it betrayed either a stunning lack of planning and preparation on the part of the coaching staff or an incomprehensible lack of awareness and judgment. Casey has lost the right to expect the benefit of the doubt from anyone.

    If the thought process behind such an obvious decision is that fundamentally flawed then how can you believe that the thought process behind any other decision he makes is any better?

  19. #54
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    What were the assistant coaches doing during those final 26 seconds???

    "Yes boss. We'll follow you off the cliff, boss..."

    How does a group of 30 basketball minds (including the players) not figure it out?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  20. #55
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    What were the assistant coaches doing during those final 26 seconds???

    "Yes boss. We'll follow you off the cliff, boss..."

    How does a group of 30 basketball minds (including the players) not figure it out?
    This is the fine line of "following orders" vs "doing what is right", and on a team that has a fair number of vets (Lowry, Gay, Fields, Amir, DD) it is a bit surprising that none of them fouled.

    Lowry: scared of butting heads with Casey and ruining his chances of salvaging his career as a "starter"
    DD: probably believes in Casey a lot. He's a homer and will be to the end.
    Fields & Amir: similar to Demar, he's deferring to the coach
    Gay: scared of defence

  21. #56
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Put it into context that the Raptors do not want to win games this season, for example look at the type of basketball Orlando is playing. They managed to draft a good big man (Vucevic). Proceeded to be awful and drafted Oladipo, now they are still gonna have a bad record this season, but the team is centered around 2 hard working leadership guys and the franchise will be back in the playoffs sooner rather than later, and competing in them. This is what the Raps want to do, we have Val, now we just need that other legit guy to center the teams mentality and leadership around.

    And that means keeping Casey, and losing as many games as possible. Even if we don't get Wiggins, there are other players in the draft that would work just as well (Parker, Saric with a late lotto, hopefully from a Gay trade)

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  23. #57
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Put it into context that the Raptors do not want to win games this season, for example look at the type of basketball Orlando is playing. They managed to draft a good big man (Vucevic). Proceeded to be awful and drafted Oladipo, now they are still gonna have a bad record this season, but the team is centered around 2 hard working leadership guys and the franchise will be back in the playoffs sooner rather than later, and competing in them. This is what the Raps want to do, we have Val, now we just need that other legit guy to center the teams mentality and leadership around.

    And that means keeping Casey, and losing as many games as possible. Even if we don't get Wiggins, there are other players in the draft that would work just as well (Parker, Saric with a late lotto, hopefully from a Gay trade)
    Orlando also has multiple draft picks this year.. their own and either Denver's or NY's (which ever is worse) which may end up being another lottery pick with the way NY/Denver is playing.

    Colangelo had lots of faults but not getting a tangible asset for Bosh was one of the worst things he did. Even a guy like Dwight who everyone knew was unhappy and wanted to leave resulted in numerous picks and prospects. Toronto however got a TPE

    Hopefully MU can clean up Bryan's mess. Not going to be easy but he did a heck of a job with Bargnani.

  24. #58
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Put it into context that the Raptors do not want to win games this season, for example look at the type of basketball Orlando is playing. They managed to draft a good big man (Vucevic). Proceeded to be awful and drafted Oladipo, now they are still gonna have a bad record this season, but the team is centered around 2 hard working leadership guys and the franchise will be back in the playoffs sooner rather than later, and competing in them. This is what the Raps want to do, we have Val, now we just need that other legit guy to center the teams mentality and leadership around.

    And that means keeping Casey, and losing as many games as possible. Even if we don't get Wiggins, there are other players in the draft that would work just as well (Parker, Saric with a late lotto, hopefully from a Gay trade)
    Orlando got Vucevic in trade from Philly, as part of the Dwight Howard trade. 2 seasons ago I was pushing for a DeRozan trade to Philly for Iggy & Vucevic...

  25. #59
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    And that means keeping Casey, and losing as many games as possible. Even if we don't get Wiggins, there are other players in the draft that would work just as well (Parker, Saric with a late lotto, hopefully from a Gay trade)
    You can fire Casey and still manage to lose games. Remember how we said Lowry going down or being traded would end this team? Well, Lowry is playing like he's already not there, and the resulting basketball - look, you do the math.

  26. #60
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    On a more ominous note....I wonder If Casey loses the locker room over last night's fiasco/s.

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