View Poll Results: after 2 back to back double digits blow lead should casey be fired

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  • yes

    20 76.92%
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Thread: Will Masai fire Casey ?

  1. #81
    Raptors Republic Starter peanutwoozle's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I don't think it's right for a franchise to exist for 18 years, and only have 1 playoff series win to show for it....

    ....and it was a best-of-5 series :|
    There is no difference between tanking and quitting.

  2. #82
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    It's not quitting. The players on the roster certainly don't quit.

    Instead, management simply says, "it's not our time yet".
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  3. #83
    Raptors Republic Starter peanutwoozle's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    It's not quitting. The players on the roster certainly don't quit.

    Instead, management simply says, "it's not our time yet".
    in other words "i don't believe in you guys"

    and by the way, to me, the time is now, 5 years is enough time and the clock doesn't magically get extended when you get a new GM, sorry.

  4. #84
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    in other words "i don't believe in you guys"

    and by the way, to me, the time is now, 5 years is enough time and the clock doesn't magically get extended when you get a new GM, sorry.
    Well, if the time is now then they had better be making a trade for a superstar stat. 2014, 2016, 2018 firsts, plus Valanciunas and maybe Derozan, throw in a couple second rounders? Does that come close to landing you Durant?

    Cause if you want to win now, that's what's it is going to take to land the kind of player they need (if that kind of player is even available).

  5. #85
    Raptors Republic Starter peanutwoozle's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Well, if the time is now then they had better be making a trade for a superstar stat. 2014, 2016, 2018 firsts, plus Valanciunas and maybe Derozan, throw in a couple second rounders? Does that come close to landing you Durant?

    Cause if you want to win now, that's what's it is going to take to land the kind of player they need (if that kind of player is even available).
    getting to the 7th-8th seed would be fine by me as a start.

  6. #86
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    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    in other words "i don't believe in you guys"

    and by the way, to me, the time is now, 5 years is enough time and the clock doesn't magically get extended when you get a new GM, sorry.
    If MU does a makeover of the team however...by trading for picks or other players (which btw I hope very much he does) then yes, he is saying "I dont believe you guys as a group cannot get us where we want to go....which is a sustainable good/great team which can compete for the championship".

    You say, the time is now. For what? And 5 years is enough....what 5 years? BC's 5 yrs.? We have average talent and a capped out team as constituted. We may barely and optimistically make the playoffs and then what? You realize that Gay can opt out and Lowry becomes a UFA. I do not believe either takes us anywhere long term and if retained continue to pressure the cap position. There are many threads here on the subject providing all points of view, many debates and more than I can offer here. Please read them...I see you are new....welcome.

  7. #87
    Raptors Republic Rookie GoldenBaller's Avatar
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    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    getting to the 7th-8th seed would be fine by me as a start.
    Us Toronto fans settle for much less eh? :P

  8. #88
    Raptors Republic Starter peanutwoozle's Avatar
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    Quote GoldenBaller wrote: View Post
    Us Toronto fans settle for much less eh? :P
    It's what's called a start, lots of teams start there when they make the playoffs for the first time.

  9. #89
    Raptors Republic All-Star KazanTheMan's Avatar
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    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    It's what's called a start, lots of teams start there when they make the playoffs for the first time.
    Not trying to start an argument here, but you have to look at the big picture. This team at BEST is 6-8th. If you want to compete for championships, this is not the team to do it with. Yeah, waiting a couple more years is going to suck, but i'd rather contend in two-three years rather than be mediocre for the next four.
    "Masai WILL win us a championship"
    - Tim Leiweke

    Ujiri: "One thing I can say for sure is that we will not be stuck in the middle."

    Reporter: "How can you say that?"

    Ujiri: "Because I can say that."

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  11. #90
    Raptors Republic Starter peanutwoozle's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    If MU does a makeover of the team however...by trading for picks or other players (which btw I hope very much he does) then yes, he is saying "I dont believe you guys as a group cannot get us where we want to go....which is a sustainable good/great team which can compete for the championship".

    You say, the time is now. For what? And 5 years is enough....what 5 years? BC's 5 yrs.? We have average talent and a capped out team as constituted. We may barely and optimistically make the playoffs and then what? You realize that Gay can opt out and Lowry becomes a UFA. I do not believe either takes us anywhere long term and if retained continue to pressure the cap position. There are many threads here on the subject providing all points of view, many debates and more than I can offer here. Please read them...I see you are new....welcome.
    key word, "if", has he, nope.

    The time to start getting serious about building a winning culture is now, tanking like a quitter is not winning culture and is very disrespectful. I personally think this team has the pieces, but Casey is holding them back with his ego.

  12. #91
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    in other words "i don't believe in you guys"

    and by the way, to me, the time is now, 5 years is enough time and the clock doesn't magically get extended when you get a new GM, sorry.
    The time is when you have the roster to compete. This roster is not capable of competing, no matter how impatient you might be. The team is terrible and is capped-out. The only chance to improve is via trade. Call it tanking, call it rebuilding, call it retooling, call it building, call it team building, call it whatever you want... this team needs to change its core players in order to become truly competitive, be it for this season or future seasons.

    I don't expect trading core players in an attempt to compete this year will work, so it makes more sense to at least somewhat retool for next season and beyond; once this season ceases to become your priority, why not 'tank' to improve your draft lottery positioning? How is that any different than a team that's honestly & legitimately well out of the playoffs come the trade deadline (but not mathematically eliminated yet), making trades that set themselves up better for the future? It's not. It's called realism, foresight and good team management.

  13. #92
    Raptors Republic Starter peanutwoozle's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    The time is when you have the roster to compete. This roster is not capable of competing, no matter how impatient you might be. The team is terrible and is capped-out. The only chance to improve is via trade. Call it tanking, call it rebuilding, call it retooling, call it building, call it team building, call it whatever you want... this team needs to change its core players in order to become truly competitive, be it for this season or future seasons.

    I don't expect trading core players in an attempt to compete this year will work, so it makes more sense to at least somewhat retool for next season and beyond; once this season ceases to become your priority, why not 'tank' to improve your draft lottery positioning? How is that any different than a team that's honestly & legitimately well out of the playoffs come the trade deadline (but not mathematically eliminated yet), making trades that set themselves up better for the future? It's not. It's called realism, foresight and good team management.
    The 7th-8th spot is a good enough start for me, we would probably get steamrolled, but that doesn't matter to me, it's a start. Orlando got steamrolled their first time in the playoffs with their groups. You need to learn to run before you learn to jump.

  14. #93
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    The 7th-8th spot is a good enough start for me, we would probably get steamrolled, but that doesn't matter to me, it's a start. Orlando got steamrolled their first time in the playoffs with their groups. You need to learn to run before you learn to jump.
    The bold part is the key source of disagreement, seemingly, between pro/anti tankers. The reason I want to blow-up the core and essentially tank this season, is because even if this team lucks out and happens to achieve a 7th/8th seed this season, there is no room to improve. A borderline playoff team is not a start for this roster, it is the ceiling.

    Say that happens this season...

    Most likely, Lowry will get re-signed, likely with a raise. That makes this team a luxury tax team, with only a mid-1st round pick to use to improve. Aside from that, it's only minimum wage contracts to round out the roster. I'm sorry, but that doesn't get me excited and I see no way to actually further improve this team other than trading.

    If I'm right, why not start trading now, thinking more long-term, ahead of a loaded draft? I just don't get the logic.

  15. #94
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    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    key word, "if", has he, nope.

    The time to start getting serious about building a winning culture is now, tanking like a quitter is not winning culture and is very disrespectful. I personally think this team has the pieces, but Casey is holding them back with his ego.
    Ok, "If" MU does do as I suggested I assume you will start a thread headed "MU is a quitter and is disrespectul to the Raptors franchise". If he doesn't, I'll start one labelled "Damn!". We'll leave it at that.

    ps...the tea leaves say that Leiweke could fire Ujiri if he doesnt do a serious makeover of this team during this year/season.

  16. #95
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    getting to the 7th-8th seed would be fine by me as a start.
    What if the start is your finish?

    Just like there are numerous teams that use 7/8th seed as a stepping stone there are numerous teams that use that 7/8th seed as a ceiling.

    How do the Raptors get better? The only option is mid first round picks, organic growth (of players who don't play!), and minimum contracts.

    This team is what it is: a 7-11 team which is more likely to be at 11 than 7.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  17. #96
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote KazanTheMan wrote: View Post
    Not trying to start an argument here, but you have to look at the big picture. This team at BEST is 6-8th. If you want to compete for championships, this is not the team to do it with. Yeah, waiting a couple more years is going to suck, but i'd rather contend in two-three years rather than be mediocre for the next four.
    Nailed it.

    I'd take it one step further: I'd rather contend in two-three years for the next decade than be mediocre for the next four and end up where we are today with nothing more than a couple first round exits to show.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  18. #97
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    key word, "if", has he, nope.

    The time to start getting serious about building a winning culture is now, tanking like a quitter is not winning culture and is very disrespectful. I personally think this team has the pieces, but Casey is holding them back with his ego.
    Tell that to Brooklyn and Golden State.

    Brooklyn/NJ beat the Raptors on final game of 2011-12 season to finish 6th (pick traded to Portland who became Lillard, Wallace sent back, Wallace sent to Boston) and Golden State did the tank almighty to finish tied with Raps and won tie break leading to Barnes.

    2 years later:
    Brooklyn a contender
    Golden State a possible contender
    Raptors still suck.

    A winning culture is about starting with expectations. You mean to tell me anyone associated with the Raptors is expecting to win a championship this year or next? The Raptors expectations already have them set up for failure because there is no way this core sticks together and competes for a championship.... ever.

    Winning culture = expectation of winning;
    Expectation of winning requires elite talent;
    Elite talent requires trade, free agency, or drafting;
    So: what talent does Toronto have that is bringing back elite talent?
    What free agent is Toronto going to lure with no cap space?
    Draft it is.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  19. #98
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    You mean the Raps with the help of our D league Pg's triple double BEAT New Jersey playing scrubs while Casey/BC were extolling the winning culture mantra.

  20. #99
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    avatar test...1 ...2. check check

  21. #100
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    LOL...is that legal? More importantly has the topsecret designation for the weapon been revoked?

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