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Will Masai fire Casey ?

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  • #91
    peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    in other words "i don't believe in you guys"

    and by the way, to me, the time is now, 5 years is enough time and the clock doesn't magically get extended when you get a new GM, sorry.
    The time is when you have the roster to compete. This roster is not capable of competing, no matter how impatient you might be. The team is terrible and is capped-out. The only chance to improve is via trade. Call it tanking, call it rebuilding, call it retooling, call it building, call it team building, call it whatever you want... this team needs to change its core players in order to become truly competitive, be it for this season or future seasons.

    I don't expect trading core players in an attempt to compete this year will work, so it makes more sense to at least somewhat retool for next season and beyond; once this season ceases to become your priority, why not 'tank' to improve your draft lottery positioning? How is that any different than a team that's honestly & legitimately well out of the playoffs come the trade deadline (but not mathematically eliminated yet), making trades that set themselves up better for the future? It's not. It's called realism, foresight and good team management.

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    • #92
      CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
      The time is when you have the roster to compete. This roster is not capable of competing, no matter how impatient you might be. The team is terrible and is capped-out. The only chance to improve is via trade. Call it tanking, call it rebuilding, call it retooling, call it building, call it team building, call it whatever you want... this team needs to change its core players in order to become truly competitive, be it for this season or future seasons.

      I don't expect trading core players in an attempt to compete this year will work, so it makes more sense to at least somewhat retool for next season and beyond; once this season ceases to become your priority, why not 'tank' to improve your draft lottery positioning? How is that any different than a team that's honestly & legitimately well out of the playoffs come the trade deadline (but not mathematically eliminated yet), making trades that set themselves up better for the future? It's not. It's called realism, foresight and good team management.
      The 7th-8th spot is a good enough start for me, we would probably get steamrolled, but that doesn't matter to me, it's a start. Orlando got steamrolled their first time in the playoffs with their groups. You need to learn to run before you learn to jump.

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      • #93
        peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
        The 7th-8th spot is a good enough start for me, we would probably get steamrolled, but that doesn't matter to me, it's a start. Orlando got steamrolled their first time in the playoffs with their groups. You need to learn to run before you learn to jump.
        The bold part is the key source of disagreement, seemingly, between pro/anti tankers. The reason I want to blow-up the core and essentially tank this season, is because even if this team lucks out and happens to achieve a 7th/8th seed this season, there is no room to improve. A borderline playoff team is not a start for this roster, it is the ceiling.

        Say that happens this season...

        Most likely, Lowry will get re-signed, likely with a raise. That makes this team a luxury tax team, with only a mid-1st round pick to use to improve. Aside from that, it's only minimum wage contracts to round out the roster. I'm sorry, but that doesn't get me excited and I see no way to actually further improve this team other than trading.

        If I'm right, why not start trading now, thinking more long-term, ahead of a loaded draft? I just don't get the logic.

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        • #94
          peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
          key word, "if", has he, nope.

          The time to start getting serious about building a winning culture is now, tanking like a quitter is not winning culture and is very disrespectful. I personally think this team has the pieces, but Casey is holding them back with his ego.
          Ok, "If" MU does do as I suggested I assume you will start a thread headed "MU is a quitter and is disrespectul to the Raptors franchise". If he doesn't, I'll start one labelled "Damn!". We'll leave it at that.

          ps...the tea leaves say that Leiweke could fire Ujiri if he doesnt do a serious makeover of this team during this year/season.

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          • #95
            peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
            getting to the 7th-8th seed would be fine by me as a start.
            What if the start is your finish?

            Just like there are numerous teams that use 7/8th seed as a stepping stone there are numerous teams that use that 7/8th seed as a ceiling.

            How do the Raptors get better? The only option is mid first round picks, organic growth (of players who don't play!), and minimum contracts.

            This team is what it is: a 7-11 team which is more likely to be at 11 than 7.

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            • #96
              KazanTheMan wrote: View Post
              Not trying to start an argument here, but you have to look at the big picture. This team at BEST is 6-8th. If you want to compete for championships, this is not the team to do it with. Yeah, waiting a couple more years is going to suck, but i'd rather contend in two-three years rather than be mediocre for the next four.
              Nailed it.

              I'd take it one step further: I'd rather contend in two-three years for the next decade than be mediocre for the next four and end up where we are today with nothing more than a couple first round exits to show.

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              • #97
                peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
                key word, "if", has he, nope.

                The time to start getting serious about building a winning culture is now, tanking like a quitter is not winning culture and is very disrespectful. I personally think this team has the pieces, but Casey is holding them back with his ego.
                Tell that to Brooklyn and Golden State.

                Brooklyn/NJ beat the Raptors on final game of 2011-12 season to finish 6th (pick traded to Portland who became Lillard, Wallace sent back, Wallace sent to Boston) and Golden State did the tank almighty to finish tied with Raps and won tie break leading to Barnes.

                2 years later:
                Brooklyn a contender
                Golden State a possible contender
                Raptors still suck.

                A winning culture is about starting with expectations. You mean to tell me anyone associated with the Raptors is expecting to win a championship this year or next? The Raptors expectations already have them set up for failure because there is no way this core sticks together and competes for a championship.... ever.

                Winning culture = expectation of winning;
                Expectation of winning requires elite talent;
                Elite talent requires trade, free agency, or drafting;
                So: what talent does Toronto have that is bringing back elite talent?
                What free agent is Toronto going to lure with no cap space?
                Draft it is.

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                • #98
                  You mean the Raps with the help of our D league Pg's triple double BEAT New Jersey playing scrubs while Casey/BC were extolling the winning culture mantra.

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                  • #99
                    avatar test...1 ...2. check check
                    For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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                    • LOL...is that legal? More importantly has the topsecret designation for the weapon been revoked?

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                      • All these tank avatars are hilarious.

                        Personally though, of all the avatars, slaw's still ranks #1

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                        • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          All these tank avatars are hilarious.

                          Personally though, of all the avatars, slaw's still ranks #1
                          True....but I am having a difficult time dissecting the gun barrel from the turret. The camo is brilliant. I hope he has a patent on the weapon.

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                          • KazanTheMan wrote: View Post
                            Not trying to start an argument here, but you have to look at the big picture. This team at BEST is 6-8th. If you want to compete for championships, this is not the team to do it with. Yeah, waiting a couple more years is going to suck, but i'd rather contend in two-three years rather than be mediocre for the next four.
                            Tanking does not guarantee anything. How many years will it take getting screwed by the lottery to figure that out?

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                            • psrs1 wrote: View Post
                              Tanking does not guarantee anything. How many years will it take getting screwed by the lottery to figure that out?
                              JV and Ross (could have been Drummond) were products of previous tanking attempts

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                              • psrs1 wrote: View Post
                                Tanking does not guarantee anything. How many years will it take getting screwed by the lottery to figure that out?
                                I'd rather take the risk then continue to watch this mess.
                                Twitter - @thekid_it

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