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Thread: Masai has already failed

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    Default Masai has already failed

    I do not want to start normative argument on should we rebuild or not. We are rebuilding and that is reality. And since that is our direction, it is obvious that Masai has made a huge mistake by not trading Gay to Detroit when he had a chance. He felt that he would get more, he passed on Detroit offer and now, given how badly Gay is playing, it is obvious that we will never get a better offer.

    Gay is not good enough to help us move forward, but is good enough to help us will enough games to avoid having a good draft pick in the following years. Not to mention the fact that his minutes as well as touches he is getting are preventing young prospects such as Ross to develop their game.

    Not to mention the fact that Masai decided to keep Casey who we all know is a bad coach. With that in mind, it is clear that so far Masai have failed.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Masai was able to receive 3 draft picks and a rotational player on a decent contract for arguably one of the worst contracts in the league. If MU moves Gay he will still be able to get a better deal than Detroit's offer of two expiring contracts. In my opinion of course.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Gay has plenty of time left before the deadline for his numbers to rise back up to career averages.

    I shouldn't surprise anyone if an under-performing/desperate "playoff contender" comes offering picks and young (unproven) pieces.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Masai was able to receive 3 draft picks and a rotational player on a decent contract for arguably one of the worst contracts in the league. If MU moves Gay he will still be able to get a better deal than Detroit's offer of two expiring contracts. In my opinion of course.
    The key is a team with enough cap space to resign him or have him pick up his option.

    Charlotte is that team.

    The fact Gordon for Gay works straight up is a bonus.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote nilanka wrote: View Post
    gay has plenty of time left before the deadline for his numbers to rise back up to career averages.

    I shouldn't surprise anyone if an under-performing/desperate "playoff contender" comes offering picks and young (unproven) pieces.
    this

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    5 games... It's his first season and I have no problem with him assessing what he has. Gay could also have come into the season shooting 45% and playing with a chip on his shoulder. That's what I was expecting and I think his play through the first 5 games is a blip that will normalize by the end of the year.

    MU is doing a great job so far, having a GM who makes rash decisions based on very little data is what got us here to begin with.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
    -Scudworth

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Karl Marx. wrote: View Post
    I do not want to start normative argument on should we rebuild or not. We are rebuilding and that is reality. And since that is our direction, it is obvious that Masai has made a huge mistake by not trading Gay to Detroit when he had a chance. He felt that he would get more, he passed on Detroit offer and now, given how badly Gay is playing, it is obvious that we will never get a better offer.

    Gay is not good enough to help us move forward, but is good enough to help us will enough games to avoid having a good draft pick in the following years. Not to mention the fact that his minutes as well as touches he is getting are preventing young prospects such as Ross to develop their game.

    Not to mention the fact that Masai decided to keep Casey who we all know is a bad coach. With that in mind, it is clear that so far Masai have failed.
    I'm not going to say Masai has failed in any way shape or form. But I can say that the Gay to Detroit deal should have required alot more thought than it seemed to be given.

    On a one for one basis, its a terrible deal. But on a relative basis could be (have been) benificial for this team.

    The wait and see approach comes with its own costs and risks. We'll just have to see how that plays out.

    Personally I would have taken the offseason to see if better deals were out there, then gone back to Detroit just before the season started to see if the deal was still available. But thats just me.

    Masai was able to receive 3 draft picks and a rotational player on a decent contract for arguably one of the worst contracts in the league. If MU moves Gay he will still be able to get a better deal than Detroit's offer of two expiring contracts. In my opinion of course.
    Its not that simple though. Gay's salary is 50% larger than Bargnani's, while also containing a player option that as stands, could really go either way. It really makes it much more complicated to deal than Bargnani's, and complicated situations will generally decrease the value of an asset.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Its not that simple though. Gay's salary is 50% larger than Bargnani's, while also containing a player option that as stands, could really go either way. It really makes it much more complicated to deal than Bargnani's, and complicated situations will generally decrease the value of an asset.
    I was thinking about Gay's player option, and wondering what agreements could be worked out as part of a trade. For example, could Gay agree to opt-out as part of the deal, essentially turning him into a huge expiring contract? I know I've heard of this being done when players agree to opt-in to an option, but not sure if it is possible to have a verbal agreement to opt-out. That would certainly increase his value to teams that want him for a playoff run, without the $19M burden on their 2014-15 payroll.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I was thinking about Gay's player option, and wondering what agreements could be worked out as part of a trade. For example, could Gay agree to opt-out as part of the deal, essentially turning him into a huge expiring contract? I know I've heard of this being done when players agree to opt-in to an option, but not sure if it is possible to have a verbal agreement to opt-out. That would certainly increase his value to teams that want him for a playoff run, without the $19M burden on their 2014-15 payroll.
    Really thats what probably needs to be done, one way or another. Agree to opt out, or agree to opt in... and then it would be alot easier to see who demands an expiring + rental player, or win-now for a couple years player.

    But given a combination of Gay's age (fair reason to both take his 1 additional year and then sign another long term deal, or opt out now and get a guaranteed long term deal now), and the season he's having (plus the season he could have)... I don't think he'll make that decision until the year is over. But thats just my guess.

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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    5 games... It's his first season and I have no problem with him assessing what he has. Gay could also have come into the season shooting 45% and playing with a chip on his shoulder. That's what I was expecting and I think his play through the first 5 games is a blip that will normalize by the end of the year.

    MU is doing a great job so far, having a GM who makes rash decisions based on very little data is what got us here to begin with.
    This. Sort of.

    I think most people were expecting Gay to be playing at least as well as he did last season, and most likely slightly better in terms of shooting percentage. If I were MU I would have wanted to showcase a 10+ game stretch of an improved Rudy Gay to entice other teams into giving up more. Unfortunately, Gay's shooting percentage is sabotaging this strategy, leading people to say we should have taken the ridiculous Detroit offer from the summer.

    Gay is pressing big time, and he's obviously a better player than has been shown. His rebounding and defensive activity have certainly been positives. At some point his shooting is going to normalize and, if he can keep up his contributions in other areas, that's a pretty valuable player. Hopefully valuable enough for a team looking to make the playoffs to take him off our hands and help our tank.

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    "Masai has failed"?? Very harsh. He hasnt even gotten warmed up.

    We dont know what conversations he has had with other possible suitors regarding our players. Most teams want to see what holes or improvements they need to fill/make hence a month at least of the season before considering a major move. Patience please. Detroit's offer was ----. It was a feeler at best. Raptor fans wanted Bargs to be amnestied/bought out/given away but if a gm is on his game he can always find a buyer. He can also blame Gay's woes on team/system incompatibility etc.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    I can say with 90% certainty MU's shopping Rudy right now.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    I can say with 90% certainty MU's shopping Rudy right now.
    He's probably shopping half the team....
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  18. #14
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    He's probably shopping half the team....
    He's probably shopping 14/15th of the team to be more accurate.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    "Masai has failed"?? Very harsh. He hasnt even gotten warmed up.

    We dont know what conversations he has had with other possible suitors regarding our players. Most teams want to see what holes or improvements they need to fill/make hence a month at least of the season before considering a major move. Patience please. Detroit's offer was ----. It was a feeler at best. Raptor fans wanted Bargs to be amnestied/bought out/given away but if a gm is on his game he can always find a buyer. He can also blame Gay's woes on team/system incompatibility etc.
    Assuming Detroit made the offer, one would assume they at least have interest.

    I'd be happy getting Tony Mitchell and KCP out of them.

    If Raps really want Monroe, they can make an offer in free agency with Gay off the books.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    He's probably shopping 14/15th of the team to be more accurate.
    Probably exploring trading DJ Augustin for a Foreman grill right about now, bidding up the other team by making them throw in an extra grease catcher

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    Since the regular season has began, it's like this board has become a competition to see who can have the biggest knee jerk reaction.

    For what it's worth, I have this as the winner so far.

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    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    I can say with 90% certainty MU's shopping Rudy right now.
    Rudy's out as soon as a decent offer presents itself.

    I wonder how bad things have to get to move MU more towards "fire sale" mode? He's damn patient. He could just as easily still let this crap season play out.

    Sneaky big question: if the season goes this poorly, Lowry likely won't re-sign here. Who needs a PG (or a strong backup)?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote S.R. wrote: View Post
    Rudy's out as soon as a decent offer presents itself.

    I wonder how bad things have to get to move MU more towards "fire sale" mode? He's damn patient. He could just as easily still let this crap season play out.

    Sneaky big question: if the season goes this poorly, Lowry likely won't re-sign here. Who needs a PG (or a strong backup)?
    Hahahahah! I love how each one of us is slowly breaking out the tank avatars. Hilarious!

    Spreading like wildfire!
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  28. #20
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Maybe MU feared that we would win games if he traded Rudy, and secretly he has his fingers crossed for a high draft pick next year.

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