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Thread: Masai has already failed

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Thank you to whoever fixed the grammar in the thread title. It was driving me nuts.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    Maybe MU feared that we would win games if he traded Rudy, and secretly he has his fingers crossed for a high draft pick next year.
    I know your comment is sort of tongue-in-cheek, but come on.....we are not going to be a better team by trading Rudy Gay - even with how he is playing right now.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Quirk's Avatar
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    Quote coastal wrote: View Post
    I know your comment is sort of tongue-in-cheek, but come on.....we are not going to be a better team by trading Rudy Gay - even with how he is playing right now.
    We would be a better team by giving all of Gay's minutes to Fields, Ross and Hansbrough. Even at his career averages, but especially the way he's playing so far this year. I too expect it to be temporary, but if he keeps this up he's going to knock off Bargnani has the human tank. Anybody that wants a high draft pick should be lovin' Rudy Gay right now.

  4. #24
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    I'm not going to say Masai has failed in any way shape or form. But I can say that the Gay to Detroit deal should have required alot more thought than it seemed to be given.
    I am not sure we will get better offer. In fact, I am not sure we will get any offer. And make no mistake about it, Gay will not opt out soÖwe will be stuck trying to rebuild with borderline playoff team which is the worst case scenario. I am sure Masai would like to have that Detroit offer again.
    Masai established himself with Anthony trade. But there was a huge market for him and he was always going to be traded well. Besides, Coach Karl had a huge part in making that deal work by creating a system which made those players fit as well as they did. Other than Anthony trade, what else did Masai did in Denver?

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    I have no comment on this thread...

    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Rookie knowledgep's Avatar
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    things can only get worse over the next few weeks, although that bobcats loss has brought us back to reality, the rose coloured glasses come off. I voted tank for Wiggins by the way.

  7. #27
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Hahahahah! I love how each one of us is slowly breaking out the tank avatars. Hilarious!

    Spreading like wildfire!
    Couldn't stop myself

  8. #28
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    Since the regular season has began, it's like this board has become a competition to see who can have the biggest knee jerk reaction.

    For what it's worth, I have this as the winner so far.
    Does it qualify as knee jerk, if its been 6 years in the making?

  9. #29
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    Does it qualify as knee jerk, if its been 6 years in the making?
    Is it even tanking if we suck so bad organically, to begin with???

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  11. #30
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Is it even tanking if we suck so bad organically, to begin with???
    Every now and then something on here makes me laugh out loud.

    This qualified.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  12. #31
    Raptors Republic Rookie jamesk's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Every now and then something on here makes me laugh out loud.

    This qualified.
    It's an illusion, argues Berri and much of sports economics history (the field was essentially founded with the 1956 publication of Simon Rottenberg's work to this effect). Meanwhile, the vaunted ability of a draft to help bad teams get good ... that is so tough to find that many economists insist it does not exist at all.

    In other words, the draft doesn't work to make bad teams good, because that's not what it was ever designed to do. It just gives that appearance.

  13. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote jamesk wrote: View Post
    It's an illusion, argues Berri and much of sports economics history (the field was essentially founded with the 1956 publication of Simon Rottenberg's work to this effect). Meanwhile, the vaunted ability of a draft to help bad teams get good ... that is so tough to find that many economists insist it does not exist at all.

    In other words, the draft doesn't work to make bad teams good, because that's not what it was ever designed to do. It just gives that appearance.
    Berri doesn't believe tanking works, but I'd love to see this 'much of sports economics'.

    Its not hard to find an economist pointing out exactly how valuable the draft is in the NBA and does exactly what its designed to do. Which is NOT to 'just make a bad team good'

    The problem is, you can't 'just draft and then be good', it takes a whole series of decisions over the course of seasons to become good. The draft is just the starting point where a team can get that player, or series of players, that allows them to maximize the total value of their team in the long run.

    Tanking and rebuilding are not the same thing - any econcomist who doesn't recognize that is NOT a good sports economist.

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  15. #33
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    ...The problem is, you can't 'just draft and then be good', it takes a whole series of decisions over the course of seasons to become good. The draft is just the starting point where a team can get that player, or series of players, that allows them to maximize the total value of their team in the long run.

    Tanking and rebuilding are not the same thing - any econcomist who doesn't recognize that is NOT a good sports economist.
    100%

  16. #34
    Raptors Republic Rookie jamesk's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Berri doesn't believe tanking works, but I'd love to see this 'much of sports economics'.

    Its not hard to find an economist pointing out exactly how valuable the draft is in the NBA and does exactly what its designed to do. Which is NOT to 'just make a bad team good'

    The problem is, you can't 'just draft and then be good', it takes a whole series of decisions over the course of seasons to become good. The draft is just the starting point where a team can get that player, or series of players, that allows them to maximize the total value of their team in the long run.

    Tanking and rebuilding are not the same thing - any econcomist who doesn't recognize that is NOT a good sports economist.
    In the lottery era, there have been 150 teams to reach 55 wins or more -- a level around which a team can be said to be contending. How many of those 150 were bad at any point in the preceding four years? How many endured a season of, say, fewer than 30 wins? How many walked the path that tanking teams aspire to walk? Just 34 of 150, or 23 percent, according to the tallies of economist David Berri on the Freakonomics blog. And only two teams -- the Heat last year and Chris Paul's Hornets -- have gone from winning fewer than 20 games to winning more than 55 in four years or less (the Thunder never won fewer than 20). In other words, bad teams have almost no shot of becoming great with any speed, and one of the two that did did so through the power of cap space, not the draft. That's a blow to tanking teams everywhere.

    Does more time help? Not much. Win 34 games or fewer in any season, according to Arturo Galletti at The Wages of Wins, and over the next decade your chances of winning more than 55 are abysmal, at just 12 percent. Think about that. A 34-win team is not bad, winning 41 percent of its games. This season's closest equivalent would be the Timberwolves. But still, a team that good has only about a 1-in-10 chance of winning 55 or more at any point in the next decade. Heaven forbid you are a truly bad team. Even given a full decade to get it done, teams have done the full metamorphosis, from the cocoon of a sub-20 win season to the contending butterfly of 55-plus wins, only six percent of the time, and again, one of those was the outlier Heat.
    Meanwhile, in the four seasons after getting a top-three pick, teams are not living the dream. Dignam shows missing the playoffs for four straight years even after getting that plum draft pick is common, and writes: "After four years -- the amount of time on rookie scale contracts -- about 31 percent of the teams with top three picks hadnít made the playoffs even once. Almost 26 percent of these teamsí best showing was only the first round. And a further 22 percent of teams topped out in the second round."

  17. #35
    Raptors Republic Rookie jamesk's Avatar
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    Tanking is like fung shuey, however you spell that, people that think it works only cite the rare example of it working. The only redeeming factor in the tanking strategy is to acquire a superduper championship star; but the draft is a lottery and a crapshoot so good fuckin luck with that..paul george was 10th overall, the derrick rose bulls had the 9th best chance to get the #1 overall, durant went 2nd, jordan, went third, the players above them destroyed franchises for years, and the 7 win bobcats got....michael kidd-gilchrist.

    Respect the game, play to win, and cheer for your team. Otherwise, don't show up.

  18. #36
    Raptors Republic Starter Pele's Avatar
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    Quote jamesk wrote: View Post
    It's an illusion, argues Berri and much of sports economics history (the field was essentially founded with the 1956 publication of Simon Rottenberg's work to this effect). Meanwhile, the vaunted ability of a draft to help bad teams get good ... that is so tough to find that many economists insist it does not exist at all.

    In other words, the draft doesn't work to make bad teams good, because that's not what it was ever designed to do. It just gives that appearance.
    Ahhh, but Masai obviously knows that.

    That's why he's waiting for playoff bound teams to get hungry, so he can unload Lowry, Gay, the kitchen sink for some good young keeper talent and expiring contracts ... and draft picks, of course.

    Then, tank all the way while giving Jonas, Ross, Landry etc. burn to improve.

    Next year, consolidate the young talent that he's put together....and in 2 years bring in an all-star veteran.

    And WHAMMO, a perennial contender is formed.

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  20. #37
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    As an aside, here are the assets the other tank teams will likely have to offer to hungry playoff-bound teams as the season progresses (that other teams might want):

    BOSTON: Rajon Rondo, Jeff Green, Jordan Crawford, Kris Humphries
    PHILLY: Evan Turner, Thaddeus Young, Spencer Hawes
    PHOENIX: Goran Dragic, Channing Frye
    UTAH: Gordon Hayward (maybe?)

    Compare that against our tradebait. Right now Rudy looks like a much less credible option at SF as opposed to Jeff Green or Thaddeus Young. Hayward is probably more desirable for teams looking for an SG than DeMar is; right now so is Turner. Rondo and Dragic are much better starting PGs than Lowry, but they'll probably be more expensive; Jordan Crawford, on the other hand, will probably be cheaper since he's really a backup.

  21. #38
    Raptors Republic Rookie jamesk's Avatar
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    If you were another GM, show me the scenario you're in where you want lowry on an expiring small contract, or Gay with an opt out, and an extremely expensive opt in. Why would you give up a 1st round pick for either, or an identified talent? JJ Redick anyone?

  22. #39
    Raptors Republic Rookie jamesk's Avatar
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    They aren't trading hayward, he's the bieber of young mormon girls.

  23. #40
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote jamesk wrote: View Post
    Tanking is like fung shuey, however you spell that, people that think it works only cite the rare example of it working. The only redeeming factor in the tanking strategy is to acquire a superduper championship star; but the draft is a lottery and a crapshoot so good fuckin luck with that..paul george was 10th overall, the derrick rose bulls had the 9th best chance to get the #1 overall, durant went 2nd, jordan, went third, the players above them destroyed franchises for years, and the 7 win bobcats got....michael kidd-gilchrist.

    Respect the game, play to win, and cheer for your team. Otherwise, don't show up.
    You do what works for you and let others follow their team the way they see fit.... at least that is my opinion.

    The draft (players and picks) is the foundation of any successful team and talent acquistion.

    Drafting players and hoping they become stars is one method. Clearly you seem to think this is the only method by which people advocating tanking are leaning towards. The reality is assets lead to acquiring stars whether from drafting or by trading.

    This tanker advocator is all about acquiring assets, clearing the dead contracts weight, and building with a solid pillar in JV.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

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