Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 76

Thread: 29th out of 30

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,119
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    Can we get a show of hands as to who would, if they were able, go back in time and make sure that we just kept Jose as our starting PG? oh look pretty much everybody

    But more to the point, Lin isn't worse than Jose on D - he's got more of the tools to be an effective defender than Jose ever did already. (Jose never had the lateral quickness to be a really great defender; Lin does.) Lin's an effective playmaker (especially when he's playing alongside Landry Fields, the two of them are crazily synergistic) and scoring threat. He can run the pick-n-roll, which would make Jonas and Amir even more deadly.

    Lin is already quite good, has a lot of potential, and if we can get him without overspending - and if Houston starts to fracture I think that's possible - then I think we should.
    I'm not going to question the bolded because I think its true.... but I've always found it curious how much of an impact Bargnani had on Jose's perceived D. Not to many PGs get stuck with their big man not providing any help what so ever, so when they get beat the plethora of easy buckets just aren't there.

    Small sample warning - so far Jose's DRTG (according to NBA.com) above his historic norms. We'll see what happens as the season plays out, but this is something we've seen with all Raptors players. They are soooo much better defensively just by removing Bargnani from the equation (even if its relative).

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Cambridge, ON
    Posts
    1,373
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    LOL, well then thanks for your contribution to the thread, it's been entirely constructive
    I try. Just saying, nothing to get worked up about.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    729
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    Can we get a show of hands as to who would, if they were able, go back in time and make sure that we just kept Jose as our starting PG? oh look pretty much everybody

    But more to the point, Lin isn't worse than Jose on D - he's got more of the tools to be an effective defender than Jose ever did already. (Jose never had the lateral quickness to be a really great defender; Lin does.) Lin's an effective playmaker (especially when he's playing alongside Landry Fields, the two of them are crazily synergistic) and scoring threat. He can run the pick-n-roll, which would make Jonas and Amir even more deadly.

    Lin is already quite good, has a lot of potential, and if we can get him without overspending - and if Houston starts to fracture I think that's possible - then I think we should.
    Not me. Jose's a great guy and I like his ball movement, control of the offense, and shooting - BUT - he's not that good. Dallas picked him up as part of Plan D or Plan H (I lost track) and, even with former MVP Dirk Nowitzki, the report on them is that *maybe* they can make a bottom seed in the playoffs this year. Jose is not taking that team to the next level, he was never going to take the Raps to the next level, and I wouldn't want him to be here with the contract the Mavs gave him.

    Option C: move on from Jose, Lowry (it looks like we should move on, but we'll see), and any Jeremy Lin-calibre nonsense. Your're just treading water with players like that. The Raptors need a talent infusion of a much, much higher caliber than Jeremy Lin or Jose Calderon. The impact of switching Lowry out for either of those two would be negligible.

  4. Like Axel, OldSkoolCool liked this post
  5. #44
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    3,395
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    A point guard that can create for others can work for this team.. but I don't like this team at all.. it has serious flaws. Instead of looking at the PG to help get this team to the playoffs, we should be dismantling the team and getting pieces that make more sense. We need a coach that can create a system that can be successful. We need players that fit that system, and then constantly move pieces in and out that turn that system into a contender.

    This team has not been put together properly. Bryan was really bad at what he did (well at least in Toronto). It's time to blow this baby up properly and then slowly create a team that can succeed for many years. If that requires more losing before winning I'm okay with that, as long as the 'winning' part last longer than one season is not just a first round exit in the playoffs.

  6. Like S.R., isaacthompson liked this post
  7. #45
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,110
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    A point guard that can create for others can work for this team.. but I don't like this team at all.. it has serious flaws. Instead of looking at the PG to help get this team to the playoffs, we should be dismantling the team and getting pieces that make more sense. We need a coach that can create a system that can be successful. We need players that fit that system, and then constantly move pieces in and out that turn that system into a contender.

    This team has not been put together properly. Bryan was really bad at what he did (well at least in Toronto). It's time to blow this baby up properly and then slowly create a team that can succeed for many years. If that requires more losing before winning I'm okay with that, as long as the 'winning' part last longer than one season is not just a first round exit in the playoffs.
    I don't disagree, but you'll note the reasons I think Lin works have nothing to do with the flawed pieces (Rudy, Lowry) but rather the guys we agree should stay (Jonas, Amir, maybe Landry).

  8. #46
    Raptors Republic Starter peanutwoozle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    292
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    It's time to blow this baby up properly and then slowly create a team that can succeed for many years. If that requires more losing before winning I'm okay with that, as long as the 'winning' part last longer than one season is not just a first round exit in the playoffs.
    That's easier said than done. Tanking for the draft position is one thing, but there is a lot of luck involved after that. OKC is the only success story thus far of teams tanking for picks.

  9. #47
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,391
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    A point guard that can create for others can work for this team.. but I don't like this team at all.. it has serious flaws. Instead of looking at the PG to help get this team to the playoffs, we should be dismantling the team and getting pieces that make more sense. We need a coach that can create a system that can be successful. We need players that fit that system, and then constantly move pieces in and out that turn that system into a contender.

    This team has not been put together properly. Bryan was really bad at what he did (well at least in Toronto). It's time to blow this baby up properly and then slowly create a team that can succeed for many years. If that requires more losing before winning I'm okay with that, as long as the 'winning' part last longer than one season is not just a first round exit in the playoffs.
    Bold 1: Exactly right. This team is still built with Bargnani as the cornerstone, in my opinion.

    Bold 2: Exactly right again. This team is built on the basis of one players weaknesses covered by another player's strengths. There are no complete players on this team.... other than Amir and JV.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  10. #48
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    729
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Bold 1: Exactly right. This team is still built with Bargnani as the cornerstone, in my opinion.

    Bold 2: Exactly right again. This team is built on the basis of one players weaknesses covered by another player's strengths. There are no complete players on this team.... other than Amir and JV.
    MU's got two choices - he needs to land a fantastic talent (probably through the draft) to build around alongside JV. Then you fit in your complimentary players, which is where a lot of this PG discussion would come in.

    Second choice is to establish a strong team identity and build around that rather than a superstar, i.e. George Karl Nuggets, Don Nelson Warriors, and Larry Brown Pistons.

    MU hasn't given ANY indication of what he wants this team's identity to be.

  11. #49
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    3,395
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    That's easier said than done. Tanking for the draft position is one thing, but there is a lot of luck involved after that. OKC is the only success story thus far of teams tanking for picks.
    The only luck is whether they get in the top 3 of the lottery or not. After that its all homework and good management. We do not have Bryan Colangelo running this team anymore. We have a GM that thinks outside the box and put together a 50 win team after trading away their superstar player that wanted to leave.

  12. #50
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1,872
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    The only luck is whether they get in the top 3 of the lottery or not. After that its all homework and good management. We do not have Bryan Colangelo running this team anymore. We have a GM that thinks outside the box and put together a 50 win team after trading away their superstar player that wanted to leave.
    Also, it's been said a million times before but I guess we have to say it one more time:

    By all accounts this is a historically loaded draft, with multiple blue chip prospects eligible...

  13. #51
    Raptors Republic Starter peanutwoozle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    292
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    Also, it's been said a million times before but I guess we have to say it one more time:

    By all accounts this is a historically loaded draft, with multiple blue chip prospects eligible...
    Let's not get too ahead of ourselves here, I seem to recall a lot of people thought Perry Jones was going to be a stud, but he ended up falling to 27th(I think), anything can happen between now and June.

  14. #52
    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    897
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Considering, that besides maybe Fields, Lowry is the only one on the team getting assists, no I don't blame him. The ball is stopping with Gay and Derozan not Lowry.
    -"You canít run from me. I mean, my heart donít bleed Kool-Aid."
    -"ďI ainít no diva! I donít have no blond hair, red hair. Iím Reggie Evans.Ē

  15. #53
    Raptors Republic Starter peanutwoozle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    292
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    Considering, that besides maybe Fields, Lowry is the only one on the team getting assists, no I don't blame him. The ball is stopping with Gay and Derozan not Lowry.
    Ever since fans went all mushy over Calderon, they have been so quick to criticize PGs when our assist numbers are low.
    Last edited by peanutwoozle; Fri Nov 8th, 2013 at 01:51 PM.

  16. #54
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    188
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I think we can all agree that each of the Raptors starting five have their weaknesses. However, the coaching staff should be more than aware of these weaknesses and construct an offense that hides their weaknesses and highlights their (limited) strengths. An offense that is based primarily on high pick and roll plays and isolations from the wing does work for these players. In general the offense needs more movement...more downscreens... and curl cuts off screens at the free throw line. Get the players moving and make the passes as easy as possible.

  17. Like NoPropsneeded, Puffer liked this post
  18. #55
    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Niagara
    Posts
    2,709
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    Ever since fans went all mushy over Calderon, they have been so quick to criticize PGs when our assist numbers are low.
    Bud, nice try but after I was done being Mushy over Calderon, I was upset because there was no longer a PG on this team that knew how to run a basketball team. WTF do assists have to do with knowing how to get your players touches in the right spots?

  19. #56
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    29th out of 30 teams is where the Raptors stand in in assits per game.

    So there has been a number of different threads started recently about how bad our wings are or how bad our coach is and why we should tank. I'd like to point the spotlight towards an area I see as possibly the main problem for why we have been looking so bad.

    Kyle Lowry, here's looking at you. Kyle has been uncharactaristically passive this year, and I don't know if it's because he's been asked to or because he's in a contract year and wants to put his best foot forward or what, but it needs to stop. We need Kyle to be more of the PG he was in Houston when he would looked to score and penetrate, and most importantly keep the ball out of the hands of the wings. Now that isn't to say that they shouldn't get the ball, but what I mean is he needs to create plays for them as opposed to giving it to them and asking them to create

    Imagine a Clippers team if CP3 dribbled the ball up the floor and passed it to Griffin or Dudley or whomever and just expected them to create while he stood on the 3 point line waiting for an open shot. We need Kyle to penetrate, probe, hit the cutters, create openings and a bunch of other cool stuff that pg's do, and not always defer to our wings.

    Thoughts and stuff?
    It is really unfair to lowry to get most of the blame here. I agree that he should look more into being aggressive but that's another point. Lowry has been playing ok in my opinion, has toned down alot of hero ball, reduced turnovers and playing around the system but sadly that system sucks. We are the bottom in the assist department because our offense scheme sucks, most plays are run between 2 or 3 guys. I don't want to go into detail because it will be too long of a post but I'll just point out a really telling stat.

    Just look at Rudy Gay's stats, he is probably the biggest problem not Kyle Lowry. He is almost taking 25% of the team's overall shots, alot also in iso situations so its fair to say that he has the ball alot in his hands. This is partly because of the system and mostly his failure to recognize his teammates or lack of ability to create plays for others but He is averaging an abysmal 1.2 assists to 3.8 turnovers this season, there's no excuse for this shit. Compare him to landry fields who plays less minutes, takes less shots and doesn't have the ball as much yet he averages 1.8 assists per game just because he always to looks to drive and dish or make the secondary pass or be unselfish.

  20. Like Axel, iblastoff liked this post
  21. #57
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,654
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote raptors100 wrote: View Post
    ...Just look at Rudy Gay's stats, he is probably the biggest problem not Kyle Lowry. He is almost taking 25% of the team's overall shots....
    Takes 25% and connects on an abysmal number of them. That isn't going to help Lowry's assists. Similar situation with DD, though not as bad.
    Last edited by Puffer; Fri Nov 8th, 2013 at 06:33 PM.

  22. #58
    Raptors Republic Starter Shrub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    371
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Takes 25% and connects on an abysmal number of them. That isn't going to help Lowry's assists. similar situation with DD, though not as bad.
    Yeah.
    I dunno, everything else is so bad I haven't even gotten around to being able to criticize Lowry.
    The way things have been, I think most people involved with this team deserve a nice slice of blame,
    BUT, no point guard's assist numbers are going to be good on this team.
    You can only get the guy the ball...he's got to make the shot.

  23. Like Joey liked this post
  24. #59
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,654
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Hey by the way, love the avatar Shrub.

  25. #60
    Raptors Republic Starter Shrub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    371
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Hey by the way, love the avatar Shrub.
    Thanks guy.
    If I could have one of Naismith riding a tank, I would.

  26. Like mcHAPPY liked this post
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •