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Thread: 29th out of 30

  1. #61
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    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    Let's not get too ahead of ourselves here, I seem to recall a lot of people thought Perry Jones was going to be a stud, but he ended up falling to 27th(I think), anything can happen between now and June.
    People really should stop comparing PJ3 or Shabazz or other players who were highly ranked coming out of high school to the Wiggins/Parker/Randle triad on the basis that, well, those OTHER players were highly ranked coming out of high school too. It's not even remotely comparable. Every scout who has seen Wiggins, Parker or Randle - every single one says those three are superstar-level talents. Nobody was saying that about PJ3 or Shabazz - they were saying things like "has all the physical tools" and then questioning the mental aspect of their game (which was totally on target for Shabazz especially) and in PJ3's case they were noting he underachieved in his senior year of high school and then again in his freshman year and then AGAIN in his sophomore year.

    There's a difference between scouts saying "this kid definitely has what it takes to play in the NBA" and "this kid is going to be a superstar." Because Perry Jones III definitely does have what it takes to play in the NBA - that's why he's in it right now. But PJ3 didn't get LeBron-level or even Anthony Davis-level hype coming out of high school because he wasn't anywhere near that level.

  2. #62
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    29th out of 30 teams is where the Raptors stand in in assits per game.

    So there has been a number of different threads started recently about how bad our wings are or how bad our coach is and why we should tank. I'd like to point the spotlight towards an area I see as possibly the main problem for why we have been looking so bad.

    Kyle Lowry, here's looking at you. Kyle has been uncharactaristically passive this year, and I don't know if it's because he's been asked to or because he's in a contract year and wants to put his best foot forward or what, but it needs to stop. We need Kyle to be more of the PG he was in Houston when he would looked to score and penetrate, and most importantly keep the ball out of the hands of the wings. Now that isn't to say that they shouldn't get the ball, but what I mean is he needs to create plays for them as opposed to giving it to them and asking them to create

    Imagine a Clippers team if CP3 dribbled the ball up the floor and passed it to Griffin or Dudley or whomever and just expected them to create while he stood on the 3 point line waiting for an open shot. We need Kyle to penetrate, probe, hit the cutters, create openings and a bunch of other cool stuff that pg's do, and not always defer to our wings.

    Thoughts and stuff?
    Agreed. JV needs more primary feeds. Also KL has to make open 3 if ball rotates back to him. Utah games had better ball movement.

  3. #63
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    As an aside: James Harden was screaming bloody murder at Jeremy Lin last night in the Houston/Lakers game. There appears to be tension.

    If Jeremy Lin is gettable, Toronto should work to get him.
    For marketing he would be great but for wins no. BC is gone. UM will pass on Lin.

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  5. #64
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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    For marketing he would be great but for wins no.
    Have you actually watched Lin playing this year? Because if you had, you'd know this was a silly statement to make. Lin's playing better offensively than he did during the second half of last year, and during the second half of last year he was pretty good. He's actually completely fixed his biggest offensive problem (the inability to drive left). On defense he's playing better - not Mike Conley/George Hill lockdown defender level PG, but better.

  6. #65
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    Have you actually watched Lin playing this year? Because if you had, you'd know this was a silly statement to make. Lin's playing better offensively than he did during the second half of last year, and during the second half of last year he was pretty good. He's actually completely fixed his biggest offensive problem (the inability to drive left). On defense he's playing better - not Mike Conley/George Hill lockdown defender level PG, but better.
    I would love to see Lin come to Toronto for next year. Those who worry about tanking causing the fan base to ignore the team can take comfort in knowing a very large part of Asia would immediately become Raptor fans.

    I think his salary of $15M next season comes in to play at some point. For a Raptors team supposedly willing to spend, that would be a great start to a weary fan base especially when he only has a cap hit of $8.4M.

    Lin could easily start next year but long term I'd see him as a backup. He is only 25 right now and if he is your back up long term, I think you are in good position.

    And magoon, you are right. Through first 7 games he is playing some solid ball.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  7. #66
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I think his salary of $15M next season comes in to play at some point. For a Raptors team supposedly willing to spend, that would be a great start to a weary fan base especially when he only has a cap hit of $8.4M.

    Lin could easily start next year but long term I'd see him as a backup. He is only 25 right now and if he is your back up long term, I think you are in good position.
    Two things.

    First: his salary next year really doesn't matter. Masai's been clear: he wants cap space for 2015 and that season's free agent crop. Any scenario where we get Lin probably involves giving up Rudy - something along the lines of Rudy and a big (Aaron Gray, possibly, or maybe Quincy Acy or Tyler) to Houston for Lin and Asik - we'd probably immediately flip Asik to a third team (Cleveland is the most obvious candidate, for Andrew Bynum's contract and picks, because we would immediately waive Bynum and chop the expense of his contract in half). So what if Lin costs $15M next year? He doesn't cost anything in 2015 unless we resign him, and that's when the money matters.

    Second: I think you severely underrate Lin when you describe him as a long term backup. He's a starter. I don't know if he's Big Three level yet as a starter, but he could potentially get there - I think that's his ceiling, because the most important thing a point guard needs to develop is to be smart and Lin is scary smart. He's shown last year and this that he can be both a scoring threat and a playmaker; this year he's starting to show defensive handles. Even if he's not Big Three level (and I think if he ever gets there, he's third-of-three), he's definitely a quality fourth or fifth guy, say the level of a George Hill (Hill is better defensively but Lin is superior on offense). George Hill makes eight million a year and most agree that's a more than fair price for him. If we snag Lin and resign him in 2015 for 6-9 million a year for 3-4 years, that's PG locked down.

  8. #67
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    Two things.

    First: his salary next year really doesn't matter. Masai's been clear: he wants cap space for 2015 and that season's free agent crop. Any scenario where we get Lin probably involves giving up Rudy - something along the lines of Rudy and a big (Aaron Gray, possibly, or maybe Quincy Acy or Tyler) to Houston for Lin and Asik - we'd probably immediately flip Asik to a third team (Cleveland is the most obvious candidate, for Andrew Bynum's contract and picks, because we would immediately waive Bynum and chop the expense of his contract in half). So what if Lin costs $15M next year? He doesn't cost anything in 2015 unless we resign him, and that's when the money matters.

    Second: I think you severely underrate Lin when you describe him as a long term backup. He's a starter. I don't know if he's Big Three level yet as a starter, but he could potentially get there - I think that's his ceiling, because the most important thing a point guard needs to develop is to be smart and Lin is scary smart. He's shown last year and this that he can be both a scoring threat and a playmaker; this year he's starting to show defensive handles. Even if he's not Big Three level (and I think if he ever gets there, he's third-of-three), he's definitely a quality fourth or fifth guy, say the level of a George Hill (Hill is better defensively but Lin is superior on offense). George Hill makes eight million a year and most agree that's a more than fair price for him. If we snag Lin and resign him in 2015 for 6-9 million a year for 3-4 years, that's PG locked down.
    Bold 1 and 2: His salary matters to a team that is not going to pay him $8.4M next year rather $15M. If Brooklyn, the Lakers, or the Knicks trade for him $15M likely doesn't matter. To everyone else, I think it does.

    Bold 3: I know all about importance of 2015.

    Bold 4: He is a below average starter in my opinion. He is a great back up in my opinion. You're clearly a fan of his.

    Sidenote: He still turns it over way too much.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  9. #68
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    Quote Shrub wrote: View Post
    Thanks guy.
    If I could have one of Naismith riding a tank, I would.
    I made one, but I don't know how to link an image that isn't already on the internet. So I'll make it my avatar for the next few days and you are welcome to steal it! I'll go back to my other avatar in 3-4 days so don't worry about us rolling with the same one.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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  11. #69
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I would love to see Lin come to Toronto for next year. Those who worry about tanking causing the fan base to ignore the team can take comfort in knowing a very large part of Asia would immediately become Raptor fans.

    I think his salary of $15M next season comes in to play at some point. For a Raptors team supposedly willing to spend, that would be a great start to a weary fan base especially when he only has a cap hit of $8.4M.

    Lin could easily start next year but long term I'd see him as a backup. He is only 25 right now and if he is your back up long term, I think you are in good position.

    And magoon, you are right. Through first 7 games he is playing some solid ball.
    Correct me if I'm mistaken here, but isn't his cap hit only 8.4 for Houston, but if he is traded, the cap hit is his 'real' salary (ie. 15 mil)?

  12. #70
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Correct me if I'm mistaken here, but isn't his cap hit only 8.4 for Houston, but if he is traded, the cap hit is his 'real' salary (ie. 15 mil)?
    Depends on who is trading the salary.

    If it is the team who offered the contract, it is the averaged.

    If it is the original team who matched, it is the actual salary.

    4 If a player signed pursuant to the Gilbert Arenas provision is later traded, his trade value is equivalent to his cap amount, and new team inherets the same cap hit as the team that traded him. In other words, if the player goes to the team submitting the offer sheet and that team later trades him, the average salary of the contract is charged to his new team's cap. If instead the player's original team matches the offer sheet, keeps the player, and subsequently trades him, the player's actual salary is charged to his new team's cap.

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q44
    Using Lin as example:

    If Houston trades him, his cap hit is $8.4M.

    If Knicks had matched and traded him, year 1 $5.15, year 2 $5.15 + 4.5%, year 3 $15M.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  13. #71
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Depends on who is trading the salary.

    If it is the team who offered the contract, it is the averaged.

    If it is the original team who matched, it is the actual salary.



    Using Lin as example:

    If Houston trades him, his cap hit is $8.4M.

    If Knicks had matched and traded him, year 1 $5.15, year 2 $5.15 + 4.5%, year 3 $15M.
    and the reason why I always ask, rather then state, when it comes to your statements salary cap related matters remains the same

  14. #72
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    Re: Lin's availability...this piece shows some "problems" in Rocket land. In a larger sense it shows how difficult it is to put a sustainable winning team together. The prima donna factor cannot be discounted.


    http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/this-w...nd-jeremy-lin/

  15. #73
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Tonight was a perfect example of how little Ball Movement the Raptors actually get .... in a 2OT game they only had 10 Assists as a Team... That's ridiculous and completely inexcusable in my opinion... and that's on Casey.
    In Masai we Trust.

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  17. #74
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Tonight was a perfect example of how little Ball Movement the Raptors actually get .... in a 2OT game they only had 10 Assists as a Team... That's ridiculous and completely inexcusable in my opinion... and that's on Casey.
    But on the bright side gay and dd had 61 shots
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  18. #75
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    But on the bright side gay and dd had 61 shots
    In Masai we Trust.

  19. #76
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Tonight was a perfect example of how little Ball Movement the Raptors actually get .... in a 2OT game they only had 10 Assists as a Team... That's ridiculous and completely inexcusable in my opinion... and that's on Casey.
    That's your centre leading the team in assits. How does that happen in 58 minutes of play?

    I'm sure this is all really great data that MU is collecting while he is "seeing what he has" with this team, but man oh man is it ugly to watch. I can't get over it, 10 FREAKIN' ASSISTS IN 58 MINUTES OF PLAY!! The curse of Bryan lives on.

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