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  • #46
    planetmars wrote: View Post
    It's time to blow this baby up properly and then slowly create a team that can succeed for many years. If that requires more losing before winning I'm okay with that, as long as the 'winning' part last longer than one season is not just a first round exit in the playoffs.
    That's easier said than done. Tanking for the draft position is one thing, but there is a lot of luck involved after that. OKC is the only success story thus far of teams tanking for picks.

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    • #47
      planetmars wrote: View Post
      A point guard that can create for others can work for this team.. but I don't like this team at all.. it has serious flaws. Instead of looking at the PG to help get this team to the playoffs, we should be dismantling the team and getting pieces that make more sense. We need a coach that can create a system that can be successful. We need players that fit that system, and then constantly move pieces in and out that turn that system into a contender.

      This team has not been put together properly. Bryan was really bad at what he did (well at least in Toronto). It's time to blow this baby up properly and then slowly create a team that can succeed for many years. If that requires more losing before winning I'm okay with that, as long as the 'winning' part last longer than one season is not just a first round exit in the playoffs.
      Bold 1: Exactly right. This team is still built with Bargnani as the cornerstone, in my opinion.

      Bold 2: Exactly right again. This team is built on the basis of one players weaknesses covered by another player's strengths. There are no complete players on this team.... other than Amir and JV.

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      • #48
        Matt52 wrote: View Post
        Bold 1: Exactly right. This team is still built with Bargnani as the cornerstone, in my opinion.

        Bold 2: Exactly right again. This team is built on the basis of one players weaknesses covered by another player's strengths. There are no complete players on this team.... other than Amir and JV.
        MU's got two choices - he needs to land a fantastic talent (probably through the draft) to build around alongside JV. Then you fit in your complimentary players, which is where a lot of this PG discussion would come in.

        Second choice is to establish a strong team identity and build around that rather than a superstar, i.e. George Karl Nuggets, Don Nelson Warriors, and Larry Brown Pistons.

        MU hasn't given ANY indication of what he wants this team's identity to be.
        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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        • #49
          peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
          That's easier said than done. Tanking for the draft position is one thing, but there is a lot of luck involved after that. OKC is the only success story thus far of teams tanking for picks.
          The only luck is whether they get in the top 3 of the lottery or not. After that its all homework and good management. We do not have Bryan Colangelo running this team anymore. We have a GM that thinks outside the box and put together a 50 win team after trading away their superstar player that wanted to leave.

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          • #50
            planetmars wrote: View Post
            The only luck is whether they get in the top 3 of the lottery or not. After that its all homework and good management. We do not have Bryan Colangelo running this team anymore. We have a GM that thinks outside the box and put together a 50 win team after trading away their superstar player that wanted to leave.
            Also, it's been said a million times before but I guess we have to say it one more time:

            By all accounts this is a historically loaded draft, with multiple blue chip prospects eligible...
            "Stop eating your sushi."
            "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
            "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
            - Jack Armstrong

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            • #51
              JimiCliff wrote: View Post
              Also, it's been said a million times before but I guess we have to say it one more time:

              By all accounts this is a historically loaded draft, with multiple blue chip prospects eligible...
              Let's not get too ahead of ourselves here, I seem to recall a lot of people thought Perry Jones was going to be a stud, but he ended up falling to 27th(I think), anything can happen between now and June.

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              • #52
                Considering, that besides maybe Fields, Lowry is the only one on the team getting assists, no I don't blame him. The ball is stopping with Gay and Derozan not Lowry.
                -"You can’t run from me. I mean, my heart don’t bleed Kool-Aid."
                -"“I ain’t no diva! I don’t have no blond hair, red hair. I’m Reggie Evans.”

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                • #53
                  Raptorsss wrote: View Post
                  Considering, that besides maybe Fields, Lowry is the only one on the team getting assists, no I don't blame him. The ball is stopping with Gay and Derozan not Lowry.
                  Ever since fans went all mushy over Calderon, they have been so quick to criticize PGs when our assist numbers are low.
                  Last edited by peanutwoozle; Fri Nov 8, 2013, 02:51 PM.

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                  • #54
                    I think we can all agree that each of the Raptors starting five have their weaknesses. However, the coaching staff should be more than aware of these weaknesses and construct an offense that hides their weaknesses and highlights their (limited) strengths. An offense that is based primarily on high pick and roll plays and isolations from the wing does work for these players. In general the offense needs more movement...more downscreens... and curl cuts off screens at the free throw line. Get the players moving and make the passes as easy as possible.

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                    • #55
                      peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
                      Ever since fans went all mushy over Calderon, they have been so quick to criticize PGs when our assist numbers are low.
                      Bud, nice try but after I was done being Mushy over Calderon, I was upset because there was no longer a PG on this team that knew how to run a basketball team. WTF do assists have to do with knowing how to get your players touches in the right spots?

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                      • #56
                        Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                        29th out of 30 teams is where the Raptors stand in in assits per game.

                        So there has been a number of different threads started recently about how bad our wings are or how bad our coach is and why we should tank. I'd like to point the spotlight towards an area I see as possibly the main problem for why we have been looking so bad.

                        Kyle Lowry, here's looking at you. Kyle has been uncharactaristically passive this year, and I don't know if it's because he's been asked to or because he's in a contract year and wants to put his best foot forward or what, but it needs to stop. We need Kyle to be more of the PG he was in Houston when he would looked to score and penetrate, and most importantly keep the ball out of the hands of the wings. Now that isn't to say that they shouldn't get the ball, but what I mean is he needs to create plays for them as opposed to giving it to them and asking them to create

                        Imagine a Clippers team if CP3 dribbled the ball up the floor and passed it to Griffin or Dudley or whomever and just expected them to create while he stood on the 3 point line waiting for an open shot. We need Kyle to penetrate, probe, hit the cutters, create openings and a bunch of other cool stuff that pg's do, and not always defer to our wings.

                        Thoughts and stuff?
                        It is really unfair to lowry to get most of the blame here. I agree that he should look more into being aggressive but that's another point. Lowry has been playing ok in my opinion, has toned down alot of hero ball, reduced turnovers and playing around the system but sadly that system sucks. We are the bottom in the assist department because our offense scheme sucks, most plays are run between 2 or 3 guys. I don't want to go into detail because it will be too long of a post but I'll just point out a really telling stat.

                        Just look at Rudy Gay's stats, he is probably the biggest problem not Kyle Lowry. He is almost taking 25% of the team's overall shots, alot also in iso situations so its fair to say that he has the ball alot in his hands. This is partly because of the system and mostly his failure to recognize his teammates or lack of ability to create plays for others but He is averaging an abysmal 1.2 assists to 3.8 turnovers this season, there's no excuse for this shit. Compare him to landry fields who plays less minutes, takes less shots and doesn't have the ball as much yet he averages 1.8 assists per game just because he always to looks to drive and dish or make the secondary pass or be unselfish.

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                        • #57
                          raptors100 wrote: View Post
                          ...Just look at Rudy Gay's stats, he is probably the biggest problem not Kyle Lowry. He is almost taking 25% of the team's overall shots....
                          Takes 25% and connects on an abysmal number of them. That isn't going to help Lowry's assists. Similar situation with DD, though not as bad.
                          Last edited by Puffer; Fri Nov 8, 2013, 07:33 PM.

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                          • #58
                            Puffer wrote: View Post
                            Takes 25% and connects on an abysmal number of them. That isn't going to help Lowry's assists. similar situation with DD, though not as bad.
                            Yeah.
                            I dunno, everything else is so bad I haven't even gotten around to being able to criticize Lowry.
                            The way things have been, I think most people involved with this team deserve a nice slice of blame,
                            BUT, no point guard's assist numbers are going to be good on this team.
                            You can only get the guy the ball...he's got to make the shot.

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                            • #59
                              Hey by the way, love the avatar Shrub.

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                              • #60
                                Puffer wrote: View Post
                                Hey by the way, love the avatar Shrub.
                                Thanks guy.
                                If I could have one of Naismith riding a tank, I would.

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