Lowry to OKC

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I think this would be a good deal for both teams, especially if MU decides to go the tanking route.

LINK: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ljnlryk

TO OKC
- Lowry
- Gray

TO TOR
- Perkins
- 2014 1st round pick (the better of their own and Dallas' which is 1-20 protected)


OKC
- Lowry gives them a huge upgrade at the backup PG spot, while providing insurance for Westbrook (I could even see them potentially using a 2 PG lineup at times, to generate offense, since they can both penetrate, distribute and shoot well)
- they clear Perkins' salary a year early
- Gray balances salaries and provides additional C depth to makeup for the loss of Perkins

TOR
- 1st round pick is key acquisition, to amass picks/assets
- Perkins would be a great mentor for JV, helping him improve his positioning, defense, rebounding and all the little things (ie: setting screens)
- if the rebuild window is the 2nd half of this season and next season, then Perkins would come off the books as the team is ready to become competitive (and would be a trade asset as an expiring contract next season)
- would avoid losing Lowry for nothing; losing him now definitely initiates the tank (unless/until a legit starting PG is acquired in another deal)

[BobLoblaw]

I'll take it, it starts proper rebuilding, it gives an asset, so I think it's good enough. In terms of assets, I think the Raptors could do better if they were patient, but that would hurt the draft position.

Look at it this way -- there are teams every year looking to shed 3-5 mil in salary and giving up 1sts or solid youngsters to do it. In this deal, the Raptors add ~12 mil in salary and give Thunder a good 6th man for one 1st. So under other circumstances, if there were no reasons to tank, it would be generous. But in this case I think Ujiri should just take it if it was available.

[planetmars]

I hate Perkins but would love to have him if it initiates a tank. Would totally do this trade.

[white men can't jump]

I'm not sure I see why OKC is willing to give up a pick. Does Lowry really fill any kind of need for them? Is he an ideal 6th man? Even as a legit 6th man, is he worth a 1st round pick to a team that's been allergic to dealing them away?

If he's just going to be a backup PG, and play something like 20ish mpg (assuming some shared time with Westbrook), I really can't see them dealing this pick. I understand it helps them clear cap space sooner, but still.

[wallz]

A lineup consisting of Perkins and Hansbrough would be BADASS

[mcHAPPY]

I'm not sure I see why OKC is willing to give up a pick. Does Lowry really fill any kind of need for them? Is he an ideal 6th man? Even as a legit 6th man, is he worth a 1st round pick to a team that's been allergic to dealing them away?

If he's just going to be a backup PG, and play something like 20ish mpg (assuming some shared time with Westbrook), I really can't see them dealing this pick. I understand it helps them clear cap space sooner, but still.

He is better than Jackson. Jackson is showing what happens when potential doesn't pan out this season.

Most importantly, OKC is getting an expiring contract for Perkins. Perkins is as good as gone this summer via amnesty so they save $9.4M and they get down to the cap level allowing them to add a solid piece via free agency with the MLE and if the salary cap increases enough they might actually be able to avail of the room exception as well.

[white men can't jump]

He is better than Jackson. Jackson is showing what happens when potential doesn't pan out this season.

Most importantly, OKC is getting an expiring contract for Perkins. Perkins is as good as gone this summer via amnesty so they save $9.4M and they get down to the cap level allowing them to add a solid piece via free agency with the MLE and if the salary cap increases enough they might actually be able to avail of the room exception as well.

None of that really convinces me they'd give up a 1st round pick for Kyle Lowry's expiring contract. While he's better than Jackson, is he enough of an upgrade to merit giving that up? Again, even if he plays with Westbrook at times to get him more minutes, I don't see a bigger role for him than what Jackson has.

And Perkins is not a big deal for OKC. Yes he takes up cap space, but as you say, they can amnesty him in the summer. Why trade a 1st rounder with him now for Lowry? Lowry is a rental. They can save that space in the summer anyway by amnestying him. And then they can have a MLE type signing and a 1st rd pick in a stacked draft added to the team. Lowry is not a piece that puts them over any kind of hump, and does not aid their team-building options either.

Trading a contract you can shed without a trade in the summer, as well as a 1st rd pick, for a reserve (who also sees himself as a starter, which has led to coaching clashes) who walks in the summer and doesn't make them a more dangerous team by a significant margin....that just sounds like bad management to me.

It's not like Jackson has been that bad for them. He's giving them 9 pts and 4 assists off the bench. He's struggling a bit with TOs, and his 3 % could be better, but for a young PG he's doing pretty well. I don't know what you mean by potential not panning out. He was a 24th pick and he's gone from end of bencher to backup PG. He's really not played badly this season.

[mcHAPPY]

None of that really convinces me they'd give up a 1st round pick for Kyle Lowry's expiring contract. While he's better than Jackson, is he enough of an upgrade to merit giving that up? Again, even if he plays with Westbrook at times to get him more minutes, I don't see a bigger role for him than what Jackson has.

And Perkins is not a big deal for OKC. Yes he takes up cap space, but as you say, they can amnesty him in the summer. Why trade a 1st rounder with him now for Lowry? Lowry is a rental. They can save that space in the summer anyway by amnestying him. And then they can have a MLE type signing and a 1st rd pick in a stacked draft added to the team. Lowry is not a piece that puts them over any kind of hump, and does not aid their team-building options either.

Trading a contract you can shed without a trade in the summer, as well as a 1st rd pick, for a reserve (who also sees himself as a starter, which has led to coaching clashes) who walks in the summer and doesn't make them a more dangerous team by a significant margin....that just sounds like bad management to me.

It's not like Jackson has been that bad for them. He's giving them 9 pts and 4 assists off the bench. He's struggling a bit with TOs, and his 3 % could be better, but for a young PG he's doing pretty well. I don't know what you mean by potential not panning out. He was a 24th pick and he's gone from end of bencher to backup PG. He's really not played badly this season.

I already answered but here it is again:

Lowry is an upgrade at backup PG
They save $9.4M next season.


Essentially they are trading a 25-30 pick for a chance to improve their team this season and next season while saving $9.4M. Even if you amnesty a player the owner still needs to write the cheque; it is cash out of his/her pocket.

Also OKC would have his Bird Rights. If Lowry finds out the market for his services are not quite what he was expecting, he can go to a winner AND the Thunder keep their MLE to use elsewhere AND stay under the luxury tax assuming Lowry is signed for no more than $6M. Also Westbrook is big and athletic enough that I think they could co-exist on the floor and Lowry's ability to hit big 3's on catch and shoot would likely be valuable same with his rebounding.

I'm cool if you disagree but you asked a question and I gave you my .02

[white men can't jump]

And I answer again.

Lowry's not that significant an upgrade at backup PG.

Also, there's no guarantee the pick is 25-30. West is always tough. While OKC could easily finish in the top 2-3, they could also finish in the 4-6 range. Now, the pick is probably going to be in the 20s, but again, this is a team that has pretty much always valued the draft as the best way to add pieces, and this is arguably the strongest draft in a decade. If they are going to part with something they value so much, I can't see it being for something they don't need that much, and doesn't really upgrade their team that much.

If they really want to add help, they could really use some help at C, where they're counting a lot on a rookie to anchor the spot, or possibly at the wing, where the young guys they have behind Durant and Sefolosha are still not ready to be consistent contributors. A solid bench wing would be huge for them. PG depth is not their biggest issue...Especially since Westbrook's minutes will probably climb into the mid-high 30s.

*It's obviously fine to disagree, but I feel like the tank-happy mentality around here is starting to cloud judgment a bit. Seeing trade proposals with 2014 1st rd picks included that the Raps really have no business getting.

[mcHAPPY]

And I answer again.

Lowry's not that significant an upgrade at backup PG.

Also, there's no guarantee the pick is 25-30. West is always tough. While OKC could easily finish in the top 2-3, they could also finish in the 4-6 range. Now, the pick is probably going to be in the 20s, but again, this is a team that has pretty much always valued the draft as the best way to add pieces, and this is arguably the strongest draft in a decade. If they are going to part with something they value so much, I can't see it being for something they don't need that much, and doesn't really upgrade their team that much.

If they really want to add help, they could really use some help at C, where they're counting a lot on a rookie to anchor the spot, or possibly at the wing, where the young guys they have behind Durant and Sefolosha are still not ready to be consistent contributors. A solid bench wing would be huge for them. PG depth is not their biggest issue...Especially since Westbrook's minutes will probably climb into the mid-high 30s.

So you don't agree with my response. Cool.

[BobLoblaw]

None of that really convinces me they'd give up a 1st round pick for Kyle Lowry's expiring contract. While he's better than Jackson, is he enough of an upgrade to merit giving that up? Again, even if he plays with Westbrook at times to get him more minutes, I don't see a bigger role for him than what Jackson has.

And Perkins is not a big deal for OKC. Yes he takes up cap space, but as you say, they can amnesty him in the summer. Why trade a 1st rounder with him now for Lowry? Lowry is a rental. They can save that space in the summer anyway by amnestying him. And then they can have a MLE type signing and a 1st rd pick in a stacked draft added to the team. Lowry is not a piece that puts them over any kind of hump, and does not aid their team-building options either.

Trading a contract you can shed without a trade in the summer, as well as a 1st rd pick, for a reserve (who also sees himself as a starter, which has led to coaching clashes) who walks in the summer and doesn't make them a more dangerous team by a significant margin....that just sounds like bad management to me.

It's not like Jackson has been that bad for them. He's giving them 9 pts and 4 assists off the bench. He's struggling a bit with TOs, and his 3 % could be better, but for a young PG he's doing pretty well. I don't know what you mean by potential not panning out. He was a 24th pick and he's gone from end of bencher to backup PG. He's really not played badly this season.

I'd be surprised if they amnesty Perkins. If they were going to do that, they should've done it last year and kept Harden. I think for the Thunder saving 12 mil total in this trade is big deal. It also gives them enough flexibility to re-sign Sefolosha and flesh out the roster next year.

It sounds like bad management, maybe. Harden trade also sounded like bad management. But it's just frugal ownership in this case, I think.

[white men can't jump]

I think you're more likely to pry other assets from them. Jones is still stuck pretty far down the depth chart and could maybe use a change of scenery. And maybe even you can get a 2nd rd pick on top of that. That's not a bad trade.

I do think Lowry may have enough value to fetch a 1st rounder. I'm not convinced OKC is the team to go get one from. And in fact, it's hard to imagine any team making such a move so early. Will have to wait longer, and probably see which playoff team (or hopeful) needs to answer some questions at PG. May even need an injury to happen.