The Raptor plan is in the palm of Ujiri's hand to get him golden

[mcHAPPY]

golden inspired me, from a previous thread:

Sure, we can thank 7 years of BC 'waiting on Bargs' for that. But the thing is, everybody keeps talking about OKC tanking model, Pacers player development model, Heat big 3 FA model, Celtics big 3 model, Spurs model, etc... In my opinion, there is no such thing as a successful 'model'. There are general franchise building philosophies, such as: (1) maintaining financial flexibility, (2) developing players to exceed their initial potential, (3) culture of hard work and overachieving, (4) acquiring young talent, (5) not overpaying for the level of your talent, (6) acquiring character veterans, (7) selecting a great coach who has the balls to punish players who don't play the right way, (8) having a superior talent evaluation and scouting staff, etc..., etc...

The rest of what happens is mostly luck, especially being able to capitalize on unique opportunities that arise at that specific point in time. But following those franchise building philosophies puts yourself in the position to capitalize on those opportunities and is a sign of good management. That is more within your control. So, the idea that there is one type of 'model' that is more successful than the others or more appropriate for the Raptors situation, which must involve tanking for picks, doesn't really make sense, and has been proven to be false many times over. The draft is a lottery, lest we forget, and even if you hit the jackpot, you can still end up on the treadmill or even worse. The core franchise building philosophies are what counts - and if they take time to instill, then so be it.

Ujiri's got a plan in the palm of his hand to keep me rolling.
Ujiri's got a plan in the palm of his hand to get me golden.

I see the Raptors moving forward with a process that involves a number of elements of these 'models'. There are a number of steps to this model:


2013-15:

STEP 1) The OKC Model (aka TANKING 101):
Hit up the 2014 and 2015 drafts at the top end hoping to luck out with franchise talent. 2014 appears to have a number of franchise changers that may or may not pan out.

STEP 2) The HOUSTON Model (aka HOARDING):
Stock your roster with prospects and extra draft picks while maintaining financial flexibility.

STEP 3) The INDIANA Model (aka PATIENCE 101):
Draft wisely and develop from within (Ross, JV, Acy, future picks). Maintain financial flexibility. Cap space, exceptions, and traded draft picks are not to be used until the core is established.


2015-17:

STEP 4a) The BOSTON Model (aka CASH IN YOUR CHIPS):
Use cap space, your prospects, future picks to bring in established star talent via trade. Key here is already having 2 All-NBA talents on the roster.

STEP 4b) The MIAMI Model (aka PLAYERS UNITE 'CAUSE "WE CAN'T DO IT ON OUR OWN"):
Have a tonne of cap space. Hope Toronto has added some pizzazz (hat tip: ebrian). Hope Drake is still relevant. Hope there is one All-NBA talent who is friends with and respected by other All-NBA talent who is free agent (Love in '15? Durant in '16?)

**CRAZY REALIZATION OF THE DAY TIME: Raptors will have enough cap space in 2015 to sign a max free agent AND in 2016 if the roster included JV's cap hold, 2 top 5 picks from '14 and '15 draft, '15 max free agent signing then in 2016 there would be enough cap space to sign another max free agent. Just throwing it out there**


2017-32:

STEP 5) The SPURS Model (aka PERENNIAL CONTENDER):
With your franchise talent in place led by great coaching, management tweaks the roster each year to compliment the All-NBA talent and be a contender to win year in and year out.

STEP 6) The BROOKLYN Model (aka DRUNKEN SAILOR ON WEEKEND PASS):
The Raptors have the 4th largest NBA market with multi billion dollar corporation ownership. The luxury tax becomes a joke as the Raptors amass a 5 man core of 5 max contracts. (lol)


Anyone arguing for just one model is doomed for failure. Honestly I just had a little bit of fun with the above but even when looking at each 'model' all have elements of others. Relying just on free agency is doomed for failure. Relying on making a huge trade is doomed for failure. Relying on just the draft is doomed for failure. As many others have said it takes a lot of luck to have everything work out and is a combination of finding value contracts, drafting talent in all areas of the draft, obtaining elite talent, and finding the free agents to put you over the top.

[Superjudge]

wtf do you people do with your time...the complexity....its....mind bogling hahahaha

heehee

[golden]

Matt, I'm seriously honored. This is EPIC. lol. But, yeah, you're definitely on to something here and articulating it way better. That's always been my problem with the whole idea that tanking for that elite top 5 draft is somehow going to turn everything around overnight when the so-called Messiah arrives. That has happened a few times (Lebron, Duncan, Shaq,...) but how the hell do you plan for that?

Rather, as you point out, it is a blend of strategies and tactics supported by a core foundation of good management principles that put you in the position to 'get lucky', and lead to building a consistently good-to-great franchise. Winning championships is an even longer longshot, IMO, especially when injuries are factored in. It's hard work and takes time, but it's worth the effort.

And Craiger is absolutely right. Every management team and coaching staff TALKS a great line about philosophies, culture, work ethic, character, sacrifice, commitment, etc... But, it's the franchise that has the balls to stick to those principals and maintain consistency at all levels that eventually develops into a winner (not necessarily champion, but consistently good-to-great). It's the double-standarding and knee-jerk reactions to bad times that test management's will and each time they compromise those principles, the culture is eroded, bit by bit. This is where guys like SVG and Jerry Sloan, who won't bow down to anybody, are so valuable.

A good analogy here is that supposedly 70% of big lottery winners end up broke again after 5 years. Why? Because they never had a good foundation of prudent financial management in the first place. They squandered it.

[psrs1]

golden inspired me, from a previous thread:




Ujiri's got a plan in the palm of his hand to keep me rolling.
Ujiri's got a plan in the palm of his hand to get me golden.

I see the Raptors moving forward with a process that involves a number of elements of these 'models'. There are a number of steps to this model:


2013-15:

STEP 1) The OKC Model (aka TANKING 101):
Hit up the 2014 and 2015 drafts at the top end hoping to luck out with franchise talent. 2014 appears to have a number of franchise changers that may or may not pan out.

STEP 2) The HOUSTON Model (aka HOARDING):
Stock your roster with prospects and extra draft picks while maintaining financial flexibility.

STEP 3) The INDIANA Model (aka PATIENCE 101):
Draft wisely and develop from within (Ross, JV, Acy, future picks). Maintain financial flexibility. Cap space, exceptions, and traded draft picks are not to be used until the core is established.


2015-17:

STEP 4a) The BOSTON Model (aka CASH IN YOUR CHIPS):
Use cap space, your prospects, future picks to bring in established star talent via trade. Key here is already having 2 All-NBA talents on the roster.

STEP 4b) The MIAMI Model (aka PLAYERS UNITE 'CAUSE "WE CAN'T DO IT ON OUR OWN"):
Have a tonne of cap space. Hope Toronto has added some pizzazz (hat tip: ebrian). Hope Drake is still relevant. Hope there is one All-NBA talent who is friends with and respected by other All-NBA talent who is free agent (Love in '15? Durant in '16?)

**CRAZY REALIZATION OF THE DAY TIME: Raptors will have enough cap space in 2015 to sign a max free agent AND in 2016 if the roster included JV's cap hold, 2 top 5 picks from '14 and '15 draft, '15 max free agent signing then in 2016 there would be enough cap space to sign another max free agent. Just throwing it out there**


2017-32:

STEP 5) The SPURS Model (aka PERENNIAL CONTENDER):
With your franchise talent in place led by great coaching, management tweaks the roster each year to compliment the All-NBA talent and be a contender to win year in and year out.

STEP 6) The BROOKLYN Model (aka DRUNKEN SAILOR ON WEEKEND PASS):
The Raptors have the 4th largest NBA market with multi billion dollar corporation ownership. The luxury tax becomes a joke as the Raptors amass a 5 man core of 5 max contracts. (lol)


Anyone arguing for just one model is doomed for failure. Honestly I just had a little bit of fun with the above but even when looking at each 'model' all have elements of others. Relying just on free agency is doomed for failure. Relying on making a huge trade is doomed for failure. Relying on just the draft is doomed for failure. As many others have said it takes a lot of luck to have everything work out and is a combination of finding value contracts, drafting talent in all areas of the draft, obtaining elite talent, and finding the free agents to put you over the top.

2032! Lol

[psrs1]

Matt, I'm seriously honored. This is EPIC. lol. But, yeah, you're definitely on to something here and articulating it way better. That's always been my problem with the whole idea that tanking for that elite top 5 draft is somehow going to turn everything around overnight when the so-called Messiah arrives. That has happened a few times (Lebron, Duncan, Shaq,...) but how the hell do you plan for that?
Rather, as you point out, it is a blend of strategies and tactics supported by a core foundation of good management principles that put you in the position to 'get lucky', and lead to building a consistently good-to-great franchise. Winning championships is an even longer longshot, IMO, especially when injuries are factored in. It's hard work and takes time, but it's worth the effort.

And Craiger is absolutely right. Every management team and coaching staff TALKS a great line about philosophies, culture, work ethic, character, sacrifice, commitment, etc... But, it's the franchise that has the balls to stick to those principals and maintain consistency at all levels that eventually develops into a winner (not necessarily champion, but consistently good-to-great). It's the double-standarding and knee-jerk reactions to bad times that test management's will and each time they compromise those principles, the culture is eroded, bit by bit. This is where guys like SVG and Jerry Sloan, who won't bow down to anybody, are so valuable.

A good analogy here is that supposedly 70% of big lottery winners end up broke again after 5 years. Why? Because they never had a good foundation of prudent financial management in the first place. They squandered it.

Would love Sloan or SVG to replace Casey.

[mcHAPPY]

2032! Lol

Glad you liked that.

But if you think about the Spurs they've been contenders for 15 years straight now.

[magoon]

Glad you liked that.

But if you think about the Spurs they've been contenders for 15 years straight now.

It's not a coincidence that Tim Duncan has been playing for them all that time.

[mcHAPPY]

It's not a coincidence that Tim Duncan has been playing for them all that time.

Franchise talent, baby!

[phiLLy]

Near once in a generation talent, TD is.

Granted, he's always had a decent supporting cast, SA has done an amazing job putting together a cast where everybody knows their role, and sticks to it.

[white men can't jump]

Would love Sloan or SVG to replace Casey.

Man...me too. Who wouldn't?

This is one more reason to 'tank'. There's no way in hell either coach would ever even remotely consider coming to Toronto without a couple of potential studs on the roster.

[mcHAPPY]

Shameless bump.

I'm not surprised this thread has not lit up the forum.

There really is nothing to debate here.

The Raptors current team is going nowhere. Without even attempting to tank they are 1 win out of 3rd worst in the league.... wowzers.

Anti-tankers have a step by step laid out approach of what is needed to build a contender and it does not rest solely on the 2014 draft. It is also difficult to argue with: remove bad contracts, accumulate assets, clear cap space, focus on finding players who perform at minimum relative to the value of their contract and ideally much more.