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Thread: Unbalanced NBA?

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    Raptors Republic Rookie GoldenBaller's Avatar
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    Default Unbalanced NBA?

    Is it just me, or is every team in the NBA either amazingly skilled to make the NBA Finals, or so terrible you'd be surprised if they won 30 games? I mean, the NBA has been getting so unbalanced that its getting ridiculous. At least in other sports even crappy teams aren't THAT bad. There's no in between and it's making the NBA less fun to follow in my opinion, the same teams win every time, and the same teams lose everytime. Every year, good teams keep getting better, and the crappy teams keep getting worse.

    The gap between good and not good is so large it makes me sad to be a Raptors fan. It's like there's no getting out of this hole of losing if the good teams keep getting the best players.

    I don't know, this is just something I've been observing over the years. Feel free to agree or disagree, this is just my opinion.

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    The NBA is actually a bit better than most leagues around the world in that regard.. in the EPL the same teams have been in the top 2-3 for the last 15-20 years.

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    It's mostly due to the fact that "star players" are incredibly valuable in the NBA. One player can completely change how competitive a team can be in the league, which you can't say about sports like football or hockey. Only a few teams are able to get the Jordans and Lebrons, and because of that those are the teams that will continue to win until they lose their stars.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Default Unbalanced NBA?

    Quote consmap wrote: View Post
    It's mostly due to the fact that "star players" are incredibly valuable in the NBA. One player can completely change how competitive a team can be in the league, which you can't say about sports like football or hockey. Only a few teams are able to get the Jordans and Lebrons, and because of that those are the teams that will continue to win until they lose their stars.
    Completely agree with this. Put LeBron on most teams in the league and they're automatically championship contenders.
    Last edited by isaacthompson; Mon Nov 18th, 2013 at 05:43 PM.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote GoldenBaller wrote: View Post
    Is it just me, or is every team in the NBA either amazingly skilled to make the NBA Finals, or so terrible you'd be surprised if they won 30 games? I mean, the NBA has been getting so unbalanced that its getting ridiculous. At least in other sports even crappy teams aren't THAT bad. There's no in between and it's making the NBA less fun to follow in my opinion, the same teams win every time, and the same teams lose everytime. Every year, good teams keep getting better, and the crappy teams keep getting worse.

    The gap between good and not good is so large it makes me sad to be a Raptors fan. It's like there's no getting out of this hole of losing if the good teams keep getting the best players.

    I don't know, this is just something I've been observing over the years. Feel free to agree or disagree, this is just my opinion.
    It is why I'm so set on tanking in a year unlike any other since 2003 based on pundits opinions and anonymous GM reports.

    Not even OKC started their tank with a player of JV's calibre on their roster. Using the over used OKC 'model' or 'strategy' the equivalent of JV on their roster would be Johan Petro.

    The only chance Toronto has to get out of this hole is through the draft. There are are always exceptions but those franchise players are found in the lottery and more often than not at the top. Best chance Raps have in my opinion - and this year it is not just about Wiggins.

    Also, I think the good teams keep getting better or staying good is because of their management. Hopefully in a few years Toronto can say the same.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    I put this in another post, but Dave Berri did an analysis that showed the NBA has always been much worse in terms of competitive balance than any other North American team sport, and since the league started legislating a system designed to create more parity, it's only gotten worse. There's no use complaining about it, because it's always been that way. It shouldn't be a surprise.

    This is not the only sport where things are very predictable. Try asking a tennis fan who's going to win Roland Garros next year. We already know.

    Berri thinks the league needs a lot more players from around the world before things will be better. I just think there are too many teams at this point. The NBA and the union need to give up on the legislation, because it's just made the system worse.
    I'm not sure a comparison with tennis is relevant here. However, I do agree that there are too many teams in the league. Talent is diluted, and even moreso given that many of the best players tend to team up. I would vote for contraction!

    When compared to hockey however, it's clear the NBA and NHL are very different for some reason. Although some teams like Pittsburgh have an abundance of talent, this by no means guarantees them success in terms of championships or finals appearances or what not. Perhaps it has something to do with the work ethic required to succeed in a given hockey game, but what are the chances an 8th seed goes to the finals in the NBA? None would not be a bad bet. Both the Flames and Oilers made the Finals as 8th seeds, and what hockey fan can forget the incredible run that the Kings made as an 8th seed in 2012 to win the Cup. That's the type of NBA I'd like to watch, one where a lower seed actually may have a chance of an upset. Granted, the West is pretty tight but the East is terrible, and has been for sometime. Overall, the lack of parity in the league is disturbing, and if it wasn't for the successful marketing of it's superstars I doubt the NBA would be enjoying its present success as a league.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie GoldenBaller's Avatar
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure a comparison with tennis is relevant here. However, I do agree that there are too many teams in the league. Talent is diluted, and even moreso given that many of the best players tend to team up. I would vote for contraction!

    When compared to hockey however, it's clear the NBA and NHL are very different for some reason. Although some teams like Pittsburgh have an abundance of talent, this by no means guarantees them success in terms of championships or finals appearances or what not. Perhaps it has something to do with the work ethic required to succeed in a given hockey game, but what are the chances an 8th seed goes to the finals in the NBA? None would not be a bad bet. Both the Flames and Oilers made the Finals as 8th seeds, and what hockey fan can forget the incredible run that the Kings made as an 8th seed in 2012 to win the Cup. That's the type of NBA I'd like to watch, one where a lower seed actually may have a chance of an upset. Granted, the West is pretty tight but the East is terrible, and has been for sometime. Overall, the lack of parity in the league is disturbing, and if it wasn't for the successful marketing of it's superstars I doubt the NBA would be enjoying its present success as a league.
    The unpredictability keeps us on the tip of our toes. Keeps things interesting. That's what I like too. Since there's only a handful (like 3 teams) that have a chance of winning the NBA Finals, that's where the bandwagoners come in and ruin the glorious patriotism within teams other teams. I hate it when a heat "fan/bandwagoner" rubs it in my face that the heat beat the Raptors I'm like well no shit, the heat is fricken stacked.

    Oh well, thats sports, it's just unfortunate the Raptors are one of the consistent losing teams.

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    If you're hinting at the fact that you think the nba should have a definite salary cap, I disagree. When I look at leagues like the nfl, nhl, with different teams winning every year, I hate that. I want to have bragging rights and be proud to call my team a dynasty, even if that means losing several years in a row is a possibility. So yeah I want to be the guy rubbing it in other peoples faces how good my team is.....

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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    Perhaps it has something to do with the work ethic required to succeed in a given hockey game
    It doesn't have dick to do with work ethic. It has a lot to do with the fact that a star hockey player affects far less of your average hockey game than a star basketball player does. In playoffs, a LeBron or similar is on the floor for upwards of 40 minutes out of 48 (over 80 percent of the game). In playoffs, a star hockey player is MAYBE on the ice for 50 percent of it. What this means is that star players in the NHL have less impact on the result of a game than star players in the NBA do, and that the overall talent disparity between the teams with LeBrons and the teams with non-Lebrons is greater in the NBA than it is in the NHL.

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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    It doesn't have dick to do with work ethic. It has a lot to do with the fact that a star hockey player affects far less of your average hockey game than a star basketball player does. In playoffs, a LeBron or similar is on the floor for upwards of 40 minutes out of 48 (over 80 percent of the game). In playoffs, a star hockey player is MAYBE on the ice for 50 percent of it. What this means is that star players in the NHL have less impact on the result of a game than star players in the NBA do, and that the overall talent disparity between the teams with LeBrons and the teams with non-Lebrons is greater in the NBA than it is in the NHL.
    I don't follow hockey much, but that's bullshit. Plus if you score one goal you might have done 100% of your teams offense.

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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    I don't follow hockey much, but that's bullshit. Plus if you score one goal you might have done 100% of your teams offense.
    It's not bullshit at all. A star NHL forward often plays 20 minutes (a third of the game). He'll probably take 3-6 shots out of his team's 30-ish (10-33%). Hockey doesn't track possession time, but this guy would have the puck for 2-3 minutes at most, I'd guess.

    In basketball, everything magoon said is true. Your star player can initiate the offense EVERY TIME DOWN THE FLOOR. He can play 45 out of 48 minutes in a playoff game. He can take 50% of your team's shots. He can lead your team in either assists, rebounds, steals, or blocks (or all of them at the same time if he's LBJ). He can take the toughest defensive assignment and shut down the other team's top scorer.

    A star NBA player can affect every facet of the game at every point in the game (potentially). A star NHLer spends 2/3 of the game sitting on the bench and 95% of the game without the puck. There's really no comparison.

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    Quote S.R. wrote: View Post
    It's not bullshit at all. A star NHL forward often plays 20 minutes (a third of the game). He'll probably take 3-6 shots out of his team's 30-ish (10-33%). Hockey doesn't track possession time, but this guy would have the puck for 2-3 minutes at most, I'd guess.

    In basketball, everything magoon said is true. Your star player can initiate the offense EVERY TIME DOWN THE FLOOR. He can play 45 out of 48 minutes in a playoff game. He can take 50% of your team's shots. He can lead your team in either assists, rebounds, steals, or blocks (or all of them at the same time if he's LBJ). He can take the toughest defensive assignment and shut down the other team's top scorer.

    A star NBA player can affect every facet of the game at every point in the game (potentially). A star NHLer spends 2/3 of the game sitting on the bench and 95% of the game without the puck. There's really no comparison.
    okay I can admit I made a mistake. My lack of hockey knowledge, combined with having way too many cold shots might have clouded my judgement. I guess hockey is a more role oriented sport, or am I wrong about that too?

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    okay I can admit I made a mistake. My lack of hockey knowledge, combined with having way too many cold shots might have clouded my judgement. I guess hockey is a more role oriented sport, or am I wrong about that too?
    I think it's just the vastly different player usage and impact of a single player in the NBA, compared to any other major sport - NHL, MLB or NFL.

    Even the most dominant QB can't help a weak defense or overcome a porous O-line. Even the most dominant Cy Young pitcher only starts every 5th game. Even Crosby only plays a 3rd of the game and can't overcome an average goalie.

    The NBA is a star league where a single player can carry his team at both ends of the court. There's no other sport where a single player has such an impact. It's also the only league where a single draft can completely reverse a team's fortunes, which is why so many people are in favor of the Raps taking advantage of an incredibly loaded draft.

    It's not only a matter of the Raps adding a potential franchise player, but it's also the risk of other rebuilding/bubble teams adding them, while the Raps watch even more teams surpass them. I don't think MU is pro-tanking, but I think he's smart and a realist and opportunistic, when strategizing for the Raptors' long-term success.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    The NBA is also the most predictable of the major sports. Very few upsets ever happen in the playoffs unless there is an injury. Like others have said, it's due to the make-up of the game. 1 star player impacts so much, that the team with the best player usually wins. Look at the talented teams in the 90's that never won a title all because Michael Jordan (and Pippen). The Utah Jazz had the all-time leader in assists at PG and the 2nd all-time in points scored at PF to form the greatest Pick N Roll duo in NBA history. Despite being the hardest play to defend, with Hall of Fame players, they couldn't beat MJ because MJ was the best player in the world.

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    Quote GoldenBaller wrote: View Post
    Is it just me, or is every team in the NBA either amazingly skilled to make the NBA Finals, or so terrible you'd be surprised if they won 30 games? I mean, the NBA has been getting so unbalanced that its getting ridiculous. At least in other sports even crappy teams aren't THAT bad. There's no in between and it's making the NBA less fun to follow in my opinion, the same teams win every time, and the same teams lose everytime. Every year, good teams keep getting better, and the crappy teams keep getting worse.

    The gap between good and not good is so large it makes me sad to be a Raptors fan. It's like there's no getting out of this hole of losing if the good teams keep getting the best players.

    I don't know, this is just something I've been observing over the years. Feel free to agree or disagree, this is just my opinion.
    No, you're right, it totally is. That is partly because of the way the league is set up, and it is also a reflection of the culture that has been allowed to grow among the players.

    I see the NBA as an American game. It seems to have superficial American values, values that seem to reflect some of the less attractive parts of American culture.

    As a Canadian kid growing up I played Hockey. We wore Suits to games as 8 year olds. We never talked when a coach talked. We never yelled at a teammate, and we were taught to say "we" instead or "I" at a young age. It comes down to character, and I personally think that the American kids, although aggressive and still wanting to win, don't com equipped for the most part with the character you need to do it. So you have FA's bolting for easier routes to wins, collusion among players etc. Its sad.

    Clearly its way more complicated than I am explaining, but this is as far as I want to get into it. I thin kthe NBA can be saved, but it has to happen from the Owners down..... do you all have faith in those guys?

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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    It doesn't have dick to do with work ethic. It has a lot to do with the fact that a star hockey player affects far less of your average hockey game than a star basketball player does. In playoffs, a LeBron or similar is on the floor for upwards of 40 minutes out of 48 (over 80 percent of the game). In playoffs, a star hockey player is MAYBE on the ice for 50 percent of it. What this means is that star players in the NHL have less impact on the result of a game than star players in the NBA do, and that the overall talent disparity between the teams with LeBrons and the teams with non-Lebrons is greater in the NBA than it is in the NHL.
    Surface BS.
    Star players in the NHL are supported by, and SUPPORT equally the role players that share the ice with them. There is very little greed or ego allowed, the culture of the game and the players doesn't allow for it. further to that, star players in the NHL, TRUE star players are coveted for WAY more than just the statistical output they provide. Think Steve Nash, on skates.

    The NBA could use a few more Steve Nash's, a few more Tim Duncans.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Playoff hockey relies so much on hot goaltending. That's why it's not uncommon for an 8th seed to advance.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Playoff hockey relies so much on hot goaltending. That's why it's not uncommon for an 8th seed to advance.
    True, plus I think the NBA is less streak driven. NHL - goalie gets hot, changes everything. NFL - QB gets hot, changes everything (Go Flacco!). MLB - a pitcher can dominate on any given night but a batter can dominate a series.

    Basketball - good players play well, bad players play bad, great players play great. Best player in NBA usually plays the best and that team wins.

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    role players win you the ring in the NBA. Hence why solid teams with solid leadership and healthy character can win. You'r eonly as good as your worst players in any league.

    You also need your best to be their best.

    Thats what they cal lit "TEAM" sports. I think the NBA needs more "TEAM" across the board.

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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    No, you're right, it totally is. That is partly because of the way the league is set up, and it is also a reflection of the culture that has been allowed to grow among the players.

    I see the NBA as an American game. It seems to have superficial American values, values that seem to reflect some of the less attractive parts of American culture.

    As a Canadian kid growing up I played Hockey. We wore Suits to games as 8 year olds. We never talked when a coach talked. We never yelled at a teammate, and we were taught to say "we" instead or "I" at a young age. It comes down to character, and I personally think that the American kids, although aggressive and still wanting to win, don't com equipped for the most part with the character you need to do it. So you have FA's bolting for easier routes to wins, collusion among players etc. Its sad.

    Clearly its way more complicated than I am explaining, but this is as far as I want to get into it. I thin kthe NBA can be saved, but it has to happen from the Owners down..... do you all have faith in those guys?
    Don Cherry, is that you?

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