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  • #16
    magoon wrote: View Post
    It doesn't have dick to do with work ethic. It has a lot to do with the fact that a star hockey player affects far less of your average hockey game than a star basketball player does. In playoffs, a LeBron or similar is on the floor for upwards of 40 minutes out of 48 (over 80 percent of the game). In playoffs, a star hockey player is MAYBE on the ice for 50 percent of it. What this means is that star players in the NHL have less impact on the result of a game than star players in the NBA do, and that the overall talent disparity between the teams with LeBrons and the teams with non-Lebrons is greater in the NBA than it is in the NHL.
    Surface BS.
    Star players in the NHL are supported by, and SUPPORT equally the role players that share the ice with them. There is very little greed or ego allowed, the culture of the game and the players doesn't allow for it. further to that, star players in the NHL, TRUE star players are coveted for WAY more than just the statistical output they provide. Think Steve Nash, on skates.

    The NBA could use a few more Steve Nash's, a few more Tim Duncans.

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    • #17
      Playoff hockey relies so much on hot goaltending. That's why it's not uncommon for an 8th seed to advance.

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      • #18
        Nilanka wrote: View Post
        Playoff hockey relies so much on hot goaltending. That's why it's not uncommon for an 8th seed to advance.
        True, plus I think the NBA is less streak driven. NHL - goalie gets hot, changes everything. NFL - QB gets hot, changes everything (Go Flacco!). MLB - a pitcher can dominate on any given night but a batter can dominate a series.

        Basketball - good players play well, bad players play bad, great players play great. Best player in NBA usually plays the best and that team wins.
        Heir, Prince of Cambridge

        If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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        • #19
          role players win you the ring in the NBA. Hence why solid teams with solid leadership and healthy character can win. You'r eonly as good as your worst players in any league.

          You also need your best to be their best.

          Thats what they cal lit "TEAM" sports. I think the NBA needs more "TEAM" across the board.

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          • #20
            Craig wrote: View Post
            No, you're right, it totally is. That is partly because of the way the league is set up, and it is also a reflection of the culture that has been allowed to grow among the players.

            I see the NBA as an American game. It seems to have superficial American values, values that seem to reflect some of the less attractive parts of American culture.

            As a Canadian kid growing up I played Hockey. We wore Suits to games as 8 year olds. We never talked when a coach talked. We never yelled at a teammate, and we were taught to say "we" instead or "I" at a young age. It comes down to character, and I personally think that the American kids, although aggressive and still wanting to win, don't com equipped for the most part with the character you need to do it. So you have FA's bolting for easier routes to wins, collusion among players etc. Its sad.

            Clearly its way more complicated than I am explaining, but this is as far as I want to get into it. I thin kthe NBA can be saved, but it has to happen from the Owners down..... do you all have faith in those guys?
            Don Cherry, is that you?
            9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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            • #21
              Craig wrote: View Post
              Surface BS.
              Star players in the NHL are supported by, and SUPPORT equally the role players that share the ice with them. There is very little greed or ego allowed, the culture of the game and the players doesn't allow for it. further to that, star players in the NHL, TRUE star players are coveted for WAY more than just the statistical output they provide. Think Steve Nash, on skates.

              The NBA could use a few more Steve Nash's, a few more Tim Duncans.
              This is just silly. In the NBA, transcendent talent matters, but so does leadership. Tim Duncan has four rings. LeBron didn't win his first until he figured out how to lead a team. MJ and Kobe might be borderline-psychotics but they also figured out how to channel that to lead teams to win games. The Bad Boy era Detroit Pistons traded away more talented players for less talented players who fit better with the team and it won them two rings. Right now, the healthiest team cultures in the NBA are probably Miami, San Antonio, Indiana and Golden State, and hey look they're the best teams in the league.

              As for there not being greed or ego in hockey, that merits major lolz.

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              • #22
                For further emphasis, one of the 'good ol Canadian' hockey players:
                9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                • #23
                  Craig wrote: View Post
                  No, you're right, it totally is. That is partly because of the way the league is set up, and it is also a reflection of the culture that has been allowed to grow among the players.

                  I see the NBA as an American game. It seems to have superficial American values, values that seem to reflect some of the less attractive parts of American culture.

                  As a Canadian kid growing up I played Hockey. We wore Suits to games as 8 year olds. We never talked when a coach talked. We never yelled at a teammate, and we were taught to say "we" instead or "I" at a young age. It comes down to character, and I personally think that the American kids, although aggressive and still wanting to win, don't com equipped for the most part with the character you need to do it. So you have FA's bolting for easier routes to wins, collusion among players etc. Its sad.

                  Clearly its way more complicated than I am explaining, but this is as far as I want to get into it. I thin kthe NBA can be saved, but it has to happen from the Owners down..... do you all have faith in those guys?
                  I'm not sure if that's really an 'American' issue, or more an issue with the current 'me generation'. So many kids are groomed at a young age to strive to become a sports star, with the emphasis on showcasing themselves to get noticed. Whether it's parents or friends or agents, it's all about padding personal stats to boost your own perceived value. The concept of team play, especially in the NBA where a single player can have a big impact, seems to have taken a backseat. Loyalty is out the window too, because players are concerned about getting paid and making a name for themselves, be it on the court, in the media, and in the public eye.

                  I think the issue seems more prevalent in the US, mainly because of their overwhelming mass media constantly being broadcast to the entire world. Whether it's selfish athletes or Honey Boo Boo (yes, I went there, y'all), the current generation is all about me, me, me. It's all a race to get yours, without a care in the world for anyone else, unfortunately. Also unfortunately, the current generation of leadership is left-leaning and too worried about inclusiveness and political correctness, so that they get steamrolled by the selfish in their pursuit of only personal gain, at the expense of more traditional values. Now I feel old, so rant over. lol

                  I definitely agree about the "character" issue you alluded to, but don't think it's limited to the US or even professional athletes.
                  Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Nov 19, 2013, 11:19 AM.

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                  • #24
                    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                    I'm not sure if that's really an 'American' issue, or more an issue with the current 'me generation'. So many kids are groomed at a young age to strive to become a sports star, with the emphasis on showcasing themselves to get noticed. Whether it's parents or friends or agents, it's all about padding personal stats to boost your own perceived value. The concept of team play, especially in the NBA where a single player can have a big impact, seems to have taken a backseat. Loyalty is out the window too, because players are concerned about getting paid and making a name for themselves, be it on the court, in the media, and in the public eye.

                    I think the issue seems more prevalent in the US, mainly because of their overwhelming mass media constantly being broadcast to the entire world. Whether it's selfish athletes or Honey Boo Boo (yes, I went there, y'all), the current generation is all about me, me, me. It's all a race to get yours, without a care in the world for anyone else, unfortunately. Also unfortunately, the current generation of leadership is left-leaning and too worried about inclusiveness and political correctness, so that they get steamrolled by the selfish in their pursuit of only personal gain, at the expense of more traditional values. Now I feel old, so rant over. lol

                    I definitely agree about the "character" issue you alluded to, but don't think it's limited to the US or even professional athletes.
                    9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                    • #25
                      CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                      I'm not sure if that's really an 'American' issue, or more an issue with the current 'me generation'.
                      You know I almost posted more on this, I was going to add major markets in Canada as well. I don't expect many to even completely grasp what I'm saying, although clearly you do and I appreciate that.

                      Look, people can ignore what they want, the truth is not always something were proud of but it isn't something you can hide from. You can go deeper, you can get into social and racial demographics, and the loyalties that lie there as well. Not long ago, during NBA CBA lockout negotiations, they started referring to the Owners as "slave owners". Not exactly hard to see an underlying issue there, and further to that, the social climate created (or the simply already existed).

                      The NBA can't change it, so they won't, instead they built an empire on promoting individual success over that of the "team", because the demograpic they were selling to didn't feel as if they could relate to the "team" in the first place. Why the hell would a young black kid identify with the wished of an all white leadership group, it makes no sense given the centuries of horror that built the social obstacles in place. But could they indentify with the strong, young, black man fighting aginst a white ownership to get his? Hell yes. Hence you have a society of young kids who grow up to be NBA players that could give a shit about team, or ownership.

                      Not a popular post? Maybe not, but ask Jalen rose, or any of the fab five how they feel, they will set ya straight. There is unbalance for a lot of reasons, and I am not entirely sure I blame the players, but its pretty damned deep and complicated and it isn't something you can change without the owners themselves making significant changes to how they do business, and that includes the League head office.

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                      • #26
                        KeonClark wrote: View Post
                        For further emphasis, one of the 'good ol Canadian' hockey players:
                        So, this one guy here is acting the fool, and its says what about an entire culture of players that not one person with a shred of actual interest or knowledge about pro sports would ever refute????

                        Fuck dude, just because it seems clever, doesn't mean it makes even an ounce of real life sense.

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                        • #27
                          KeonClark wrote: View Post
                          For further emphasis, one of the 'good ol Canadian' hockey players:
                          Yeah, but he's from Vancouver. They're all dicks over there.

                          Seriously though, hockey, football, and baseball all have a much more defined and critical training process (whether colleges or junior clubs) that young players move through before they're ready for the pros. It's partly the nature of the sports and partly the culture of the sports that demand a certain amount of maturity and experience before a player, even with a lot of natural talent, can really be successful at the pro level.

                          It's true that NBA champions learn the importance of team before they win it all, but for some reason a lot of gifted players never get the memo (Rudy Gay!) and spend their entire careers thinking they can do it on their own (Rudy Gay!). And they do produce enough to score big contracts, make millions of dollars, and essential be satisfied with a long career as a professional basketball player. That, for some reason, seems to be enough success for a whole bunch of NBAers. They'll pay lip-service to team and championships, but their unwillingness to adjust their games and learn (Rudy Gay!) says otherwise about their mentality.

                          Frick, as mentioned LeBron James and Michael Jordan significantly evolved as players before winning championships. Why do these guys (Rudy Gay!) think they can keep on keeping on with their "Haterz gonna hate - just do what you do" mentality? It's not about you vs. the haters (Rudy Gay!) it's about learning how to become a champion.
                          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                          • #28
                            Lebron is actually one of the guys out there that seems to get it nowadays.

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                            • #29
                              Craig wrote: View Post
                              So, this one guy here is acting the fool, and its says what about an entire culture of players that not one person with a shred of actual interest or knowledge about pro sports would ever refute????

                              Fuck dude, just because it seems clever, doesn't mean it makes even an ounce of real life sense.
                              So one picture doesnt help my argument, but you can paint every athlete from one sport with the same brush? I cant believe it took you 5 posts to stop beating around your bush and start saying "black kids".

                              Sent from my GT-S7560M using Tapatalk
                              9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                              • #30
                                You think its hard for me to say black kids?

                                You think i brush 100% of the players in the NBA with the same brush?

                                You need to step back from your stance as its clearly confrontational. I'm certainly not a racist, and I don't think anyone with any real smarts would ever look at life at extremes. You do however have to recognize whats in front of you. You don't think there are underlying racial issues in pro sports? Read a bit.

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