Offensive Offence - Don't expect a change - Koreen

[Axel]

Interesting read from Koreen.

Few points of emphasis:

"The Raptors cannot simply dump the ball into either Johnson or Jonas Valanciunas, since neither excels in those roles. The biggest reason Johnson scores so efficiently is that he confines himself to certain shots."

Very true, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to apply to Gay and Demar, which it should as well.

"The Raptors play at the third-slowest pace in the league, creating just 93.9 possessions per game.

“I don’t know if we have natural runners,” Casey said. “Our guys are running at a gait that should put pressure on the defence. It’s a pace that’s comfortable for them. A lot of people get caught up in pace of play; I don’t.”

Not natural runners? Athleticism is our wings best attribute. Both starting bigs (Amir and JV) are mobile bigs who will hustle all game if they have to. Lowry played fast paced in Houston and did very well. Casey might be spending too many nights with Rob Ford if he thinks we don't have the personnel for running.

Full article

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...kely-will-not/

[mcHAPPY]

Can anyone name an ISO-centric offense that has ever won a championship?

The closest I can get is Iverson's 76ers with the trip to the finals.

Here are some general rules of thumb using my thumbs - and a middle finger since their are 3:

1) Great teams win with elite talent, good players, and players playing with in a system.
2) Average teams have elite talent trying to do it on their own.
3) Crap teams have average to poor talent trying to do it on their own.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

No matter how athletic your players are, a team can't run if those players have low-BBIQ, poor court vision and are allergic to passing.

[Masai Ujiri]

Can anyone name an ISO-centric offense that has ever won a championship?

The closest I can get is Iverson's 76ers with the trip to the finals.

Here are some general rules of thumb using my thumbs - and a middle finger since their are 3:

1) Great teams win with elite talent, good players, and players playing with in a system.
2) Average teams have elite talent trying to do it on their own.
3) Crap teams have average to poor talent trying to do it on their own.

Couldn't an average team also just have average/above average players working together well? Think Bulls sans Rose last year

Couldn't a crap team have a bunch of poor/average/young players who work together well? Orlando is a good example of this, they actually play good team basketball just don't have elite talent.

You're generalizing too much.

[KeonClark]

No matter how athletic your players are, a team can't run if those players have low-BBIQ, poor court vision and are allergic to passing.

It was only this year I was made painfully aware that lottery picks into the National Basketball Association can still lack the ability to drive and kick a basketball...

It's mind boggling that people simply say Demar "can't". I was a 2 guard in high school and were all taught that. It's kind of like saying we drafted this running back #10 overall but he can't read a defense or stiff arm. Great.

[Nilanka]

It was only this year I was made painfully aware that lottery picks into the National Basketball Association can still lack the ability to drive and kick a basketball...

It's mind boggling that people simply say Demar "can't". I was a 2 guard in high school and were all taught that. It's kind of like saying we drafted this running back #10 overall but he can't read a defense or stiff arm. Great.

Agreed. Since the 1-and-done approach became popular, very few rookies come into the league ready to contribute. Almost all are "projects" of some sort, which is why so many GMs are suckered into drafting a player based on "potential".....and in some cases, holding onto them based on said "potential".

Gone are the days of the Tim Duncans...

[CalgaryRapsFan]

It was only this year I was made painfully aware that lottery picks into the National Basketball Association can still lack the ability to drive and kick a basketball...

It's mind boggling that people simply say Demar "can't". I was a 2 guard in high school and were all taught that. It's kind of like saying we drafted this running back #10 overall but he can't read a defense or stiff arm. Great.

Regardless of the sport, awareness is a skill that can't be learned. The way I see it, it's a 3-part equation to develop a successful athlete: skill/talent + work ethic + awareness.

Applied to DeRozan, there's no doubt he has the first two. From watching him, I just don't think he has very good court awareness. A guy like Calderon is way less talented, but his awareness and court vision allow him to overcome that (at least on the offensive end).

Some players overcome the odds (ie: less skill/talent) because they are hungrier and have an insane passion & drive (ie: work ethic), while other players utilize their heads to compensate (ie: awareness). The superstars (ie: Jordan, LBJ) have all 3 qualities.

[slaw]

Not surprising. I posted earlier this week that while I would like them to play differently, I am not sure that they are capable. They don't have guys who can actually run the break and make good decisions in transition (pay attention to how many fast breaks they screw up), they don't run screen and roll well because the perimeter people aren't good passers, and the post game doesn't work cause the bigs aren't ready for the volume of touches required and there are no shooters so the floor spacing is terrible.

In short, the ISO game is likely one of the better options even though I don't think it leads to winning basketball. So, ISO in the short term likely gives the best chance of success night to night but isn't a viable long-term strategy for sustained success.

[mcHAPPY]

Couldn't an average team also just have average/above average players working together well? Think Bulls sans Rose last year

Couldn't a crap team have a bunch of poor/average/young players who work together well? Orlando is a good example of this, they actually play good team basketball just don't have elite talent.

You're generalizing too much.

Did you read my post?

I'm not sure how much more of an opinion statement I could have made it "Here are some general rules of thumb USING MY THUMBS - AND A MIDDLE FINGERS SINCE THERE ARE 3"

A rule of thumb is a principle with broad application that is not intended to be strictly accurate or reliable for every situation

Yes, I am very much generalizing.

But back to my question: Can anyone think of an ISO-centric team that won a championship?

[Employee]

Can anyone name an ISO-centric offense that has ever won a championship?

The closest I can get is Iverson's 76ers with the trip to the finals.

Here are some general rules of thumb using my thumbs - and a middle finger since their are 3:

1) Great teams win with elite talent, good players, and players playing with in a system.
2) Average teams have elite talent trying to do it on their own.
3) Crap teams have average to poor talent trying to do it on their own.

Houston maybe? Offense was basically kick it to Hakeem, if he gets doubled then pass it to the open three man. But then I guess that involves passing as well.

[Masai Ujiri]

Did you read my post?

I'm not sure how much more of an opinion statement I could have made it "Here are some general rules of thumb USING MY THUMBS - AND A MIDDLE FINGERS SINCE THERE ARE 3"

A rule of thumb is a principle with broad application that is not intended to be strictly accurate or reliable for every situation

Yes, I am very much generalizing.

But back to my question: Can anyone think of an ISO-centric team that won a championship?

Could you relax and stop being rude please?

[mcHAPPY]

Could you relax and stop being rude please?

Where is the rude? Where is the need to relax?

You responded to a statement about generalization when I made clear it was a generalization to begin with.

I replied highlighting said generalizations.

I will take your suggestion to not be rude and to relax under consideration. I might offer a piece of advice of my own: try to avoid nit picking someone's comment stating it was a generalization when they made it clear it was a generalization to begin with.

[Axel]

Houston maybe? Offense was basically kick it to Hakeem, if he gets doubled then pass it to the open three man. But then I guess that involves passing as well.

That would be a post centric offence, which is entirely different than a perimeter iso based offence.

I honestly can't think of anything except the aforementioned Iverson 76ers who made the finals.

[The Great One]

Can anyone name an ISO-centric offense that has ever won a championship?

The closest I can get is Iverson's 76ers with the trip to the finals.

Can't think of any. Like you, the closest i can think of was the 01 Iverson Sixers team.

Iverson led the Sixers to an NBA Finals appearance in 01. But that's Allen Iverson a future Hall Of Famer. And the Sixers that year had some pretty good complimentary players like Mutombo, Snow, McKie, Hill etc....And oh they had a pretty good coach too(Larry Brown).

[Axel]

No matter how athletic your players are, a team can't run if those players have low-BBIQ, poor court vision and are allergic to passing.

I think only Gay and DD are allergic to passing (based on this year's production). Lowry has proven in the past to be capable of running a transition attack. Once Amir or JV outlet the ball, Lowry can dribble until we get to an assist worthy passing opportunity (weird wording I know, but how else can I say the moment of decision where we only need a single pass to score?). Our bigs as trailers would be able to out-run most opposing bigs, forcing the D to either give up a wide-open lay-up to Amir/JV, or collapse down leaving the corner 3 wide open. This model doesn't require much, if any, passing from Gay or Demar, as we'll also have numbers to crash the glass on Gay's missed shot.