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Thread: 4th seed in the East? Atlantic Division Leaders? Check and Check!

  1. #401
    Raptors Republic Starter peanutwoozle's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Well then you're choosing to cover your eyes, while ignoring reality. I can't help you.
    What do you expect to get with a 2nd round pick then?

  2. #402
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    CalRapsFans points out Championship teams...see bold

    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    1st bold - Congratulations, you picked out the one and only NBA championship team in at least the last 25 years (likely much longer) that wasn't built around a key player drafted by the franchise. History has proven that building through the draft is the most effective method of building a successful franchise. How/why you wind up getting a high draft pick is of no concern in the long run.
    You counter with Sacramento, Minnesota and Portland? Not exactly the same thing. Talking about Championship teams and how they acquired their stars is a very different discussion than mismanagement of unsuccessful teams.

    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    at your bolded point - Really? Sacramento, Minnesota, Portland, etc... come to mind.

    Wanna know what Boston used to acquire the other 2 (and Paul Pierce was a 10th pick) members of the big 3 and the rest of their core, let's see, Ray Allen was traded for Wally Szczerbiak (at the time he was injury prone), Delonte West (24th pick), and the 5th pick (Jeff Green) - only 1 high pick, Kevin Garnett was traded for Sebastian Telfair (a first round bust who never lived up to his potential), Theo Ratliff (expiring bum), Ryan Gomes (50th pick), Gerald Green (18th pick), Al Jefferson (15th pick), and 2 first round picks that were late. Rondo was a 21st pick, and Perkins was a 27th pick.
    Boston is a great example of building through the draft. They acquired multiple picks in multiple years and used those picks (either before or after the draft) to get better players. The were able to make trades because they acquired multiple picks and could trade them away and still use other picks to select good (Perkins at 27) or great (Rondo at 21) players to fill out their roster. If you are against this method, then you leave only free agency, so you might as well cheer for either Miami, Lakers or the Knicks if that is your only acceptable methodology.

  3. #403
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Only to the Raptors though. Most other teams have managed some sort of Second Round Gem at some point in time.
    Masai was scouting for jazz when they selected millsap and miles in 2006

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  5. #404
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    What do you expect to get with a 2nd round pick then?
    It's not necessarily about the pick itself. It's about asset accumulation. That pick could theoretically be included in a larger trade package in the future. Isn't that a better scenario than Lowry playing out his contract and having nothing to show for it?

    Or we could simply keep the pick, and roll the dice (Monta Ellis, Gilbert Arenas, Manu Ginobili....just a few 2nd round players that come to mind). Again, a better option than Lowry leaving.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  6. #405
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
    What do you expect to get with a 2nd round pick then?
    Depends on the year, but every year has usuable rotation players available in the 2nd round.

    Last year (still early, but guys form the 2nd round)
    Allen Crabbe - SG with 3PT range
    Glen Rice Jr
    Tony Mitchell
    Nate Wolters
    Jeff Withey

    2012
    Jeffrey Taylor - rugged SF defender
    Draymond Green - versatile 3/4
    Quincy Acy

    2011
    Kyle Singler
    Chandler Parsons
    Lavoy Allen
    Isaiah Thomas (who currently leads the NBA in 4th quarter scoring)

    2010
    Landry Fields
    Lance Stephenson
    (Undrafted) Jeremy Lin

    2009
    Dante Cunningham
    DeJaun Blair
    Patrick Beverley (starting PG for Houston)
    Marcus Thornton
    Chase Budinger
    Danny Green

    2008
    Nikola Pekovic
    Mario Chalmers
    DeAndre Jordan
    Omer Asik
    Goran Dragic (was the Raps pick that year - but sadly we had traded it away)

    Do I need to go on?

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  8. #406
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    The strength of this team will be scouting moving forward.

    Weltman and Ujiri got their start there.

    Thati s how the Raptors will be built moving forward.

    Any and all draft picks appreciated.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  10. #407
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    I appreciate the three intelligent responses above me but let's not forget that Lowry only fetching a second rounder was something that Peanutwazoo arbitrarily came up with to help move his point along.

  11. #408
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    I appreciate the three intelligent responses above me but let's not forget that Lowry only fetching a second rounder was something that Peanutwazoo arbitrarily came up with to help move his point along.
    True. An expiring Lowry should have more value than an expiring Barbosa.

    EDIT: Plus, when Colangelo traded Barbosa, he wasn't willing to take back any salaries, which must've limited the offers he received. Masai, on the other hand, could afford to take back guaranteed salaries (if/when he trades Rudy).
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  12. #409
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    I appreciate the three intelligent responses above me but let's not forget that Lowry only fetching a second rounder was something that Peanutwazoo arbitrarily came up with to help move his point along.
    My post was made with no consideration to Lowry. Too long have the Raptors traded away second rounders because of Pee-wooz's mentality. This year was the first time we made a 2nd round selection since 2006.

    2007 - Ramon Sessions was still on the board
    2008 - Goran Dragic was the pick
    2009 - Jonas Jerebko was the pick. Beverley, Thornton, Budinger, Danny Green all still on the board
    2010 - nothing great available
    2011 - Kyle Singler was the pick, Chandler Parsons, Isaiah Thomas on the board

  13. #410
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Non-tankers rejoice!

    According to Hollinger's playoff-odd machine, the Raptors have a 72.3% chance of making the playoffs, and only a 1.0% chance of winning the lottery.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/playoffodds

  14. #411
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    Yup, it dropped from 79% yesterday. A couple more losses will turn those odds around in a hurry.

  15. #412
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Non-tankers rejoice!

    According to Hollinger's playoff-odd machine, the Raptors have a 72.3% chance of making the playoffs, and only a 1.0% chance of winning the lottery.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/playoffodds
    Lucky for us, we don't need to "win the lottery" to come out as winners in the draft
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  17. #413
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    I know it's early in the season to scoreboard watch but tomorrow night...knicks vs nets.....someone has to win (I think)

  18. #414
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    From Koreen's National Post Article (http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...ion-really-is/)

    "According to Deadspin, the division’s combined winning percentage (32.2%) is the worst in the history of any division in the modern history of North American sports."

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  20. #415
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Great night! Mil, Philly, Cha, Det and Chi lose.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    @Chr1st1anL

  21. #416
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Great night! Mil, Philly, Cha, Det and Chi lose.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    On the positive side, NY, Orlando and either Utah/Sacramento won, bringing Toronto even closer to fewest overall wins!

    Utah winning puts Toronto in a tie for 5th worse, only 2 wins ahead of Milwaukee and Utah.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Dec 11th, 2013 at 11:46 PM.

  22. #417
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    On the positive side, NY, Orlando and either Utah/Sacramento won, bringing Toronto even closer to fewest overall wins!

    Utah winning puts Toronto in a tie for 5th worse, only 2 wins ahead of Milwaukee and Utah.
    Yes we can! Yes we can! Yes we can!

    #hope

  23. #418
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    On the positive side, NY, Orlando and either Utah/Sacramento won, bringing Toronto even closer to fewest overall wins!

    Utah winning puts Toronto in a tie for 5th worse, only 2 wins ahead of Milwaukee and Utah.
    And Milwaukee has a stubborn owner, and is trying to get a new arena deal. While it's hard to see them suddenly becoming great, it's easy to imagine them trying to dig themselves out of that hole.

    I posted about this in another thread, but really, there aren't that many teams tanking.

    In the East, BKL and NYK will be better than they've been, even if they end up mediocre. Boston is playing too well without Rondo, and so it's hard to tell what they'll do, but it looks like at this stage they're fighting for playoffs. Cleveland is aiming playoffs. Other than Boston (who may still be aiming for wins), all the teams currently in the playoff picture in the East are likely trying to stay in that picture. Chicago is a wildcard. They're one more major injury away from tanking by default, probably, but will probably still be better than the bottomfeeders because Thibs is their coach. So really, Philly, Orlando and Toronto (assumign that's the plan) are definitely tanking. All other teams look to be more likely to aim for the playoffs, even the craptastic Bucks.

    In the West....well Utah is leading the tank brigade. Tanking harder than anyone else by far. Sacto was the only other team that looked like they might, then they traded for Gay. Don't think it'll vault them into the playoffs, but it will vault them out of the bottom and into "no man's land".

    So that's 4 likely tankers at this stage, including Toronto. A bit of uncertainty with some other teams (Boston, Milly). And then lots of teams fighting for the playoffs. Not that crowded a fight for the bottom. It is a lottery, so who knows what happens, but record-wise, shouldn't be too hard to fight for the bottom 5-6.

  24. #419
    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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  25. #420
    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    Never liked Stephen A. Smith hahah

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