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Thread: The case for Josh Smith

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i'm not sure josh smith helps the team any more
    @jerboat

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Starter Dino4life's Avatar
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    Josh Smith's father is sick, which is why he missed practiced and his head wasn't in the game. He hasn't been demoted in Detroit yet.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    I like Monroe too but it seems he has significant defensive issues.
    Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about him. I haven't seen him play much, so it's hard to make a judgement. I did look up his stats and was surprised to see such poor blocking numbers. I don't know if that's any indication of his defense but that would certainly be a concern if it is the case that his defense is poor. That being said, if I had to choose between Smith or Monroe, I'd go after Monroe.

  4. #24
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    I haven't seen him play much, so it's hard to make a judgement.
    Pistons fan here..He's good; really good.

    The bulk of the educated pistons fans were salivating at the idea of giving him a max contract this year to pair with Drummond and have an emerging frontcourt that could be the best in the league in the near future. Then Dumars signed josh smith. We all tried to put blue and red colored glasses on about the signing; but, the writing was on the wall. Spacing is poor with Smith at the 3, and he can't even guard his new position (getting eaten alive by players like Demarre Carrol).

    I, personally, would love a trade straight up for Gay and Smith (we would probably have to throw something else in to make the numbers work, maybe Jerebko). I'm not so sure i'd want to take it if i were the Raps, though. Amir Johnson has been your best defender over the past 3 seasons, and I believe he's got the highest +/- on the team. Why move him to the bench?

    In terms of Monroe's defense, no he doesn't get a lot of blocks. He has extremely quick hands and gets a lot of steals, however. He is very good at defending his man individually on the low block, but struggles with PnR defense at teams (albeit he is improving, and still extremely young). I can tell you one thing...if we traded you Moose for Gay straight up (with fillers if necessary), there would be a lot of Pistons fans lining up to jump off the bridge, and the Raptors would be getting a huge steal.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Shrub wrote: View Post
    I just can't believe anybody can watch Gay play and support him.
    It truly baffles my mind.
    He ONLY scored in the clutch yesterday.
    Otherwise, he missed.
    His bad decisions are what almost put us out the game.
    They killed all of our momentum, and give them easy buckets.

    He is not a good ball handler
    He dribbles too high, into double teams, and loses the ball.
    Constantly.

    What are you watching?
    Clearly you're not a fan of Gay but you shouldn't let that cloud your judgement.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Starter Shrub's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Clearly you're not a fan of Gay but you shouldn't let that cloud your judgement.
    Here's the thing - and I don't say this to be argumentative: I was.
    I really was.
    And I came into this season hoping he would get it together.

    Mediumcore, I'm about as objective as a passionate fan can be.
    I'm passionate, so I can't stand to see garbage basketball played in Toronto.
    I'm objective, so I refuse to call it anything else.

    My judgement of Gay starts and ends with one question:
    Does he help the Raptors win?

    And the answer is no.

    Do you really think Gay is a good ball handler?
    Do you really think Gay makes good decisions?
    Do you really think he helps this team more than he hurts them?
    If so, how?

    I am genuinely curious, I hope these posts don't come off as aggressive.
    When I watch Gay play, I want to scream, and sometimes I do (yesterday).
    It's just bad basketball.

    What are you seeing that I'm not?

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Shrub wrote: View Post
    Here's the thing - and I don't say this to be argumentative: I was.
    I really was.
    And I came into this season hoping he would get it together.

    Mediumcore, I'm about as objective as a passionate fan can be.
    I'm passionate, so I can't stand to see garbage basketball played in Toronto.
    I'm objective, so I refuse to call it anything else.

    My judgement of Gay starts and ends with one question:
    Does he help the Raptors win?

    And the answer is no.

    Do you really think Gay is a good ball handler?
    Do you really think Gay makes good decisions?
    Do you really think he helps this team more than he hurts them?
    If so, how?

    I am genuinely curious, I hope these posts don't come off as aggressive.
    When I watch Gay play, I want to scream, and sometimes I do (yesterday).
    It's just bad basketball.

    What are you seeing that I'm not?
    This is lyrical.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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  9. #28
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    As you all know I'm a huge supporter of Rudy Gay on this team. Even I can notice that he just doesn't fit well on this team. Even though his tried but a zebra can not simply change his stripes after 8 seasons.

    Rudy Gay isn't the only player from the 04' American High School class that's struggling so far. Josh Smith the big time signing of the Detroit Pistons this past summer is having a hard time in the motor city. For some reason Joe Dumars though that J Smoove could play the 3. Well he was wrong. Extremely wrong! Detroit has started 4-8. The combination of Smith/Monroe/Drummond has been so bad that tonight they brought their prized free agent off the bench.

    Can you smell the blood in the water Massai? I sure can. I say trade up trade for Gay and Smith. I don't if it will works under the books but those two have to be headliners in the trade. Both these guys don't fit on their teams. Its time for a change of location for both. December 15th is when it's possible. Hopefully Rudy catches on to the new team concept and this won't be necessary but right now it seems necessary. Discuss....


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Rudy and Josh Smith have actually been playing very similar ball this year. Rudy has just been better on offense. Rudy is starting to adjust to his role with us and is actually grabbing more rebounds per game than Josh. Even blocks isn't that far off with Smith averaging 1.7 and Rudy averaging 1.3.

    The thing I think we are seeing with Gay is him adjusting to playing with Demar. As the season goes on you are seeing him pass more and look for better shots. He's also really turned it up on the glass and on defense. The biggest thing however that isn't tlaked about enough is the 39% of threes Rudy is making. I wouldn't trade him right now and I think we gets re upped by us long term.
    All is all I don't think Smith fits us any better than Rudy does
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
    -Scudworth

  10. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Shrub wrote: View Post
    Here's the thing - and I don't say this to be argumentative: I was.
    I really was.
    And I came into this season hoping he would get it together.

    Mediumcore, I'm about as objective as a passionate fan can be.
    I'm passionate, so I can't stand to see garbage basketball played in Toronto.
    I'm objective, so I refuse to call it anything else.

    My judgement of Gay starts and ends with one question:
    Does he help the Raptors win?

    And the answer is no.

    Do you really think Gay is a good ball handler?
    Do you really think Gay makes good decisions?
    Do you really think he helps this team more than he hurts them?
    If so, how?

    I am genuinely curious, I hope these posts don't come off as aggressive.
    When I watch Gay play, I want to scream, and sometimes I do (yesterday).
    It's just bad basketball.

    What are you seeing that I'm not?
    I'm not a fan of Gay's shot selection either, but to deny the skills he brings to the table makes no sense. He clearly makes us a better team.

    Clutch Shooting: 2 game winners last year shortly after joining the team. 2 big shots to send games into overtime already this year. Big shots against good defenders like Paul George, Tony Allen, Tayshaun Prince, Chandler Parsons etc. he can score on just about any NBA player when he is dialled in. Nobody, and I mean nobody else on the roster brings that ability.

    Ball Handling: I do believe he is a good ball handler for a small forward. He is the second best ball handler on the starting line up after Lowry and it's not even close. When teams trap Lowry to force the ball out, Gay is capable of bringing the ball up the floor and even create.

    Rebounding: ranked 3rd best rebounding small forward so far this season.

    There are other thing Gay brings which make this team better, but I will leave you with this thought/ question: would DeMar have three games of 30+ points already this season if Gay wasn't opening up shots for him?

    Again, I agree his shot selection is ridiculous, but get past all the dumb things he does and look at what the team would be missing if you removed him from the roster. IMO, having him on the floor is an advantage for us.

  11. #30
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote Frank Steele wrote: View Post
    Pistons fan here..He's good; really good.

    The bulk of the educated pistons fans were salivating at the idea of giving him a max contract this year to pair with Drummond and have an emerging frontcourt that could be the best in the league in the near future. Then Dumars signed josh smith. We all tried to put blue and red colored glasses on about the signing; but, the writing was on the wall. Spacing is poor with Smith at the 3, and he can't even guard his new position (getting eaten alive by players like Demarre Carrol).

    I, personally, would love a trade straight up for Gay and Smith (we would probably have to throw something else in to make the numbers work, maybe Jerebko). I'm not so sure i'd want to take it if i were the Raps, though. Amir Johnson has been your best defender over the past 3 seasons, and I believe he's got the highest +/- on the team. Why move him to the bench?

    In terms of Monroe's defense, no he doesn't get a lot of blocks. He has extremely quick hands and gets a lot of steals, however. He is very good at defending his man individually on the low block, but struggles with PnR defense at teams (albeit he is improving, and still extremely young). I can tell you one thing...if we traded you Moose for Gay straight up (with fillers if necessary), there would be a lot of Pistons fans lining up to jump off the bridge, and the Raptors would be getting a huge steal.
    Glad to hear Detroit fans speak so highly of Monroe. Bringing in Smith and Jennings was a bonehead move IMO. I'm not sure how Jennings is working out but both of them do not seem to be ideal teammates, and in Smith's case, a terrible fit for the frontline. Rudy would seem to help, but if he played the way he has predominantly played this season he is unlikely to be much of an upgrade over Smith. In any case, no way I'm taking Smith...you guys can keep him for the next few seasons. Considering your praise for Monroe though, I'm more likely to support a trade that moves Rudy and brings in the big fella.

  12. #31
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    Glad to hear Detroit fans speak so highly of Monroe. Bringing in Smith and Jennings was a bonehead move IMO.
    Not many Detroit fans thought it was a good one (the only ones that did think BLOCKS AND DUNKS are the chief ingredient for more wins). I would've much rather us drafted Burke or MCW and tried to go after Iguodala myself, but Kentavious Caldwell Pope looks like he could be a plus defender on the wings and hopefully develop his 3 pt shot. Either way, the Smith signing was horrible, and everyone knows it. There is a reason Atlanta didn't even make an effort to re-sign him.

    If you could swindle Monroe away and be able to keep Derozan and Valanciunas in the process, you'd be 3/5 of the way to your starting lineup of the near AND distant future with many playoff runs in the middle.

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  14. #32
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I would change this to can, and it's a good way to describe the problem with Gay. It's a mental and motor issue. He can play good defence, but he doesn't consistently. On any given night he can inexplicably decide to coast, and play some of the worst D you'll ever see in your life. Bad effort, bad positioning, bad fundamentals (stands up straight and doesn't move feet).
    Fair clarification.

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