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The case for Josh Smith
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Shrub wrote: View PostI just can't believe anybody can watch Gay play and support him.
It truly baffles my mind.
He ONLY scored in the clutch yesterday.
Otherwise, he missed.
His bad decisions are what almost put us out the game.
They killed all of our momentum, and give them easy buckets.
He is not a good ball handler
He dribbles too high, into double teams, and loses the ball.
Constantly.
What are you watching?
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psrs1 wrote: View PostHe needs to recognize double teams earlier and swing the ball. He does play decent defence but is an inefficient scorer.
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psrs1 wrote: View PostI like Monroe too but it seems he has significant defensive issues.
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JawsGT wrote: View PostI haven't seen him play much, so it's hard to make a judgement.
The bulk of the educated pistons fans were salivating at the idea of giving him a max contract this year to pair with Drummond and have an emerging frontcourt that could be the best in the league in the near future. Then Dumars signed josh smith. We all tried to put blue and red colored glasses on about the signing; but, the writing was on the wall. Spacing is poor with Smith at the 3, and he can't even guard his new position (getting eaten alive by players like Demarre Carrol).
I, personally, would love a trade straight up for Gay and Smith (we would probably have to throw something else in to make the numbers work, maybe Jerebko). I'm not so sure i'd want to take it if i were the Raps, though. Amir Johnson has been your best defender over the past 3 seasons, and I believe he's got the highest +/- on the team. Why move him to the bench?
In terms of Monroe's defense, no he doesn't get a lot of blocks. He has extremely quick hands and gets a lot of steals, however. He is very good at defending his man individually on the low block, but struggles with PnR defense at teams (albeit he is improving, and still extremely young). I can tell you one thing...if we traded you Moose for Gay straight up (with fillers if necessary), there would be a lot of Pistons fans lining up to jump off the bridge, and the Raptors would be getting a huge steal.
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Shrub wrote: View PostI just can't believe anybody can watch Gay play and support him.
It truly baffles my mind.
He ONLY scored in the clutch yesterday.
Otherwise, he missed.
His bad decisions are what almost put us out the game.
They killed all of our momentum, and give them easy buckets.
He is not a good ball handler
He dribbles too high, into double teams, and loses the ball.
Constantly.
What are you watching?
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Mediumcore wrote: View PostClearly you're not a fan of Gay but you shouldn't let that cloud your judgement.
I really was.
And I came into this season hoping he would get it together.
Mediumcore, I'm about as objective as a passionate fan can be.
I'm passionate, so I can't stand to see garbage basketball played in Toronto.
I'm objective, so I refuse to call it anything else.
My judgement of Gay starts and ends with one question:
Does he help the Raptors win?
And the answer is no.
Do you really think Gay is a good ball handler?
Do you really think Gay makes good decisions?
Do you really think he helps this team more than he hurts them?
If so, how?
I am genuinely curious, I hope these posts don't come off as aggressive.
When I watch Gay play, I want to scream, and sometimes I do (yesterday).
It's just bad basketball.
What are you seeing that I'm not?
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Shrub wrote: View PostHere's the thing - and I don't say this to be argumentative: I was.
I really was.
And I came into this season hoping he would get it together.
Mediumcore, I'm about as objective as a passionate fan can be.
I'm passionate, so I can't stand to see garbage basketball played in Toronto.
I'm objective, so I refuse to call it anything else.
My judgement of Gay starts and ends with one question:
Does he help the Raptors win?
And the answer is no.
Do you really think Gay is a good ball handler?
Do you really think Gay makes good decisions?
Do you really think he helps this team more than he hurts them?
If so, how?
I am genuinely curious, I hope these posts don't come off as aggressive.
When I watch Gay play, I want to scream, and sometimes I do (yesterday).
It's just bad basketball.
What are you seeing that I'm not?“The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King
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Chr1s1anL wrote: View PostAs you all know I'm a huge supporter of Rudy Gay on this team. Even I can notice that he just doesn't fit well on this team. Even though his tried but a zebra can not simply change his stripes after 8 seasons.
Rudy Gay isn't the only player from the 04' American High School class that's struggling so far. Josh Smith the big time signing of the Detroit Pistons this past summer is having a hard time in the motor city. For some reason Joe Dumars though that J Smoove could play the 3. Well he was wrong. Extremely wrong! Detroit has started 4-8. The combination of Smith/Monroe/Drummond has been so bad that tonight they brought their prized free agent off the bench.
Can you smell the blood in the water Massai? I sure can. I say trade up trade for Gay and Smith. I don't if it will works under the books but those two have to be headliners in the trade. Both these guys don't fit on their teams. Its time for a change of location for both. December 15th is when it's possible. Hopefully Rudy catches on to the new team concept and this won't be necessary but right now it seems necessary. Discuss....
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The thing I think we are seeing with Gay is him adjusting to playing with Demar. As the season goes on you are seeing him pass more and look for better shots. He's also really turned it up on the glass and on defense. The biggest thing however that isn't tlaked about enough is the 39% of threes Rudy is making. I wouldn't trade him right now and I think we gets re upped by us long term.
All is all I don't think Smith fits us any better than Rudy does"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."
-Churchill
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Shrub wrote: View PostHere's the thing - and I don't say this to be argumentative: I was.
I really was.
And I came into this season hoping he would get it together.
Mediumcore, I'm about as objective as a passionate fan can be.
I'm passionate, so I can't stand to see garbage basketball played in Toronto.
I'm objective, so I refuse to call it anything else.
My judgement of Gay starts and ends with one question:
Does he help the Raptors win?
And the answer is no.
Do you really think Gay is a good ball handler?
Do you really think Gay makes good decisions?
Do you really think he helps this team more than he hurts them?
If so, how?
I am genuinely curious, I hope these posts don't come off as aggressive.
When I watch Gay play, I want to scream, and sometimes I do (yesterday).
It's just bad basketball.
What are you seeing that I'm not?
Clutch Shooting: 2 game winners last year shortly after joining the team. 2 big shots to send games into overtime already this year. Big shots against good defenders like Paul George, Tony Allen, Tayshaun Prince, Chandler Parsons etc. he can score on just about any NBA player when he is dialled in. Nobody, and I mean nobody else on the roster brings that ability.
Ball Handling: I do believe he is a good ball handler for a small forward. He is the second best ball handler on the starting line up after Lowry and it's not even close. When teams trap Lowry to force the ball out, Gay is capable of bringing the ball up the floor and even create.
Rebounding: ranked 3rd best rebounding small forward so far this season.
There are other thing Gay brings which make this team better, but I will leave you with this thought/ question: would DeMar have three games of 30+ points already this season if Gay wasn't opening up shots for him?
Again, I agree his shot selection is ridiculous, but get past all the dumb things he does and look at what the team would be missing if you removed him from the roster. IMO, having him on the floor is an advantage for us.
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Frank Steele wrote: View PostPistons fan here..He's good; really good.
The bulk of the educated pistons fans were salivating at the idea of giving him a max contract this year to pair with Drummond and have an emerging frontcourt that could be the best in the league in the near future. Then Dumars signed josh smith. We all tried to put blue and red colored glasses on about the signing; but, the writing was on the wall. Spacing is poor with Smith at the 3, and he can't even guard his new position (getting eaten alive by players like Demarre Carrol).
I, personally, would love a trade straight up for Gay and Smith (we would probably have to throw something else in to make the numbers work, maybe Jerebko). I'm not so sure i'd want to take it if i were the Raps, though. Amir Johnson has been your best defender over the past 3 seasons, and I believe he's got the highest +/- on the team. Why move him to the bench?
In terms of Monroe's defense, no he doesn't get a lot of blocks. He has extremely quick hands and gets a lot of steals, however. He is very good at defending his man individually on the low block, but struggles with PnR defense at teams (albeit he is improving, and still extremely young). I can tell you one thing...if we traded you Moose for Gay straight up (with fillers if necessary), there would be a lot of Pistons fans lining up to jump off the bridge, and the Raptors would be getting a huge steal.
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